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  • Edgar Jones at voiceofjesus.org

    Hi Lucy, your friend, Edgar Jones at voiceofjesus.org, denies that Yeshua was a sacrifice, according to what the Law of Moses required. Do you agree with him? Ken
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols
    (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  • #2
    not a friend IAH...

    eat the meat spit out the bones, is my motto.
    only Yeshua is 100% correct and ofcourse you...


    You always find something wrong with everyone but yourself
    Why don't you list all the forums you post on and tell everyone how wrong they are.....

    Only you are ;;right;; IAH

    - Must be a marvellous quality, you do this to everyone.
    Are you god? yet
    or just in your own eyes

    BTW
    I dont care if he showers with his clothes on... he has many good things to say especially about sauline and the Sabbath.
    P erhaps you can read them sometime
    OPPPS I forgot you are god.!!!! no need

    Well I joke with you IAH,
    you're probably a nice old bird and sincere enough, and so religious... but nice and sweet....
    Help old ladies across the road and stuff like that.
    that good boy scout stuff... that's you I reckon....
    youre just arguementive and a bit silly sometimes but hey no one is perfect...opps I forgot..YOU ARE. lol
    I rather like old Edgar too, he is dead now...

    so he didn't get to understand LIFE AND LIBERTY...

    shame he was on the right track, I guess it doesn't take too much for the
    Master's thumbs down signal.


    yikes now that is A WORRY.

    now IAH I want TO be real serious here about THE THUMBS DOWN SIGNAL..... ARE YOU EXPECTING IT?
    HE holds the keys NOW not satan.....
    you know how in the movies like the Gladiators how Caesar would watch the fight and one man would conquer the other to the death and look up too see what thumb sign, Caesar would give.

    now how do you think you will fare in the arena of life and death?
    personally I do believe it is touch and go for ya laddy.
    you need MORE WISDOM and guts I think
    to me your;e not a fighter just a talker.

    now I will tell you some hints.
    FIGHT for your faith to be developed so it will KILL OFF ALL YOUR HUMAN UNBELIEF,

    Comment


    • #3
      You and Edgar appear to have the same spirit.

      Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
      eat the meat spit out the bones, is my motto.
      only Yeshua is 100% correct and ofcourse you...


      You always find something wrong with everyone but yourself
      Why don't you list all the forums you post on and tell everyone how wrong they are.....

      Only you are ;;right;; IAH

      - Must be a marvellous quality, you do this to everyone.
      Are you god? yet
      or just in your own eyes

      BTW
      I dont care if he showers with his clothes on... he has many good things to say especially about sauline and the Sabbath.
      P erhaps you can read them sometime
      OPPPS I forgot you are god.!!!! no need

      Well I joke with you IAH,
      you're probably a nice old bird and sincere enough, and so religious... but nice and sweet....
      Help old ladies across the road and stuff like that.
      that good boy scout stuff... that's you I reckon....
      youre just arguementive and a bit silly sometimes but hey no one is perfect...opps I forgot..YOU ARE. lol
      I rather like old Edgar too, he is dead now...

      so he didn't get to understand LIFE AND LIBERTY...

      shame he was on the right track, I guess it doesn't take too much for the
      Master's thumbs down signal.


      yikes now that is A WORRY.

      now IAH I want TO be real serious here about THE THUMBS DOWN SIGNAL..... ARE YOU EXPECTING IT?
      HE holds the keys NOW not satan.....
      you know how in the movies like the Gladiators how Caesar would watch the fight and one man would conquer the other to the death and look up too see what thumb sign, Caesar would give.

      now how do you think you will fare in the arena of life and death?
      personally I do believe it is touch and go for ya laddy.
      you need MORE WISDOM and guts I think
      to me your;e not a fighter just a talker.

      now I will tell you some hints.
      FIGHT for your faith to be developed so it will KILL OFF ALL YOUR HUMAN UNBELIEF,
      Hi Lucy, old Edgar (who you say is dead now) is quoted PROFUSELY by you in your attack against The Apostle Paul and The Sabbath. Do you think old Edgar believed his attack against Paul and the Sabbath was not exactly how he thought his g-d believed? You and him have the SAME spirit that is against Paul and the Law, and you, like him, think there is no possible way for you to be in error (sort of G-dlike), as you accuse me of being. Are you not the pot calling the kettle black?

      I asked you a simple question, and your response is to tell me that I believe I am never wrong, and you try to get out of answering the question by saying the poor old guy is dead, and he must have had some things wrong in what he believed (he wasn't always 100% right like Yeshua). Was he 99% right about the question I asked you, 50%, 2%, just exactly how correct is his teaching that Yeshua was NOT a sacrificial LAMB? I asked this question because it is the FOUNDATION of everything he teaches, and it is your foundation also in hating Paul, and the Law that Yeshua gave to Moses. So that is why I would like to test the spirit of this dead man's words, and see if you agree with those dead words. You TEACH us as IF your WORDS are never in error, let's keep testing each others words. Was Yeshua a sacrificial LAMB, or do you believe with the spirit of this dead man's error? Ken

      P.S. To old Edgar's credit, I must give him some kudos, his stand AGAINST substitutionary atonement is correct. Yeshua was never to be considered a sinner's substitute. He has that concept correct, but where he is in error is in how he THINKS the Apostle Paul was teaching such a heinous doctrine. Poor old Edgar is just like the deceived "churchmen" that he was preaching against, in how he has NOT understood Paul even 1%? He had ZERO comprehension of what Paul taught about Sacrifice and Grace, as he misunderstood Paul, just like YOU. But hey Lucy, there is no way you could be wrong about Paul, is there? You are ALWAYS right about him, yes, no, maybe?
      Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

      Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
      Abstain from meats offered to idols
      (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
      So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

      Comment


      • #4
        Lucy, I challenge you to go to this forum below....

        Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
        eat the meat spit out the bones, is my motto.
        only Yeshua is 100% correct and ofcourse you...


        You always find something wrong with everyone but yourself
        Why don't you list all the forums you post on and tell everyone how wrong they are.....

        Only you are ;;right;; IAH

        - Must be a marvellous quality, you do this to everyone.
        Are you god? yet
        or just in your own eyes

        BTW
        I dont care if he showers with his clothes on... he has many good things to say especially about sauline and the Sabbath.
        P erhaps you can read them sometime
        OPPPS I forgot you are god.!!!! no need

        Well I joke with you IAH,
        you're probably a nice old bird and sincere enough, and so religious... but nice and sweet....
        Help old ladies across the road and stuff like that.
        that good boy scout stuff... that's you I reckon....
        youre just arguementive and a bit silly sometimes but hey no one is perfect...opps I forgot..YOU ARE. lol
        I rather like old Edgar too, he is dead now...

        so he didn't get to understand LIFE AND LIBERTY...

        shame he was on the right track, I guess it doesn't take too much for the
        Master's thumbs down signal.


        yikes now that is A WORRY.

        now IAH I want TO be real serious here about THE THUMBS DOWN SIGNAL..... ARE YOU EXPECTING IT?
        HE holds the keys NOW not satan.....
        you know how in the movies like the Gladiators how Caesar would watch the fight and one man would conquer the other to the death and look up too see what thumb sign, Caesar would give.

        now how do you think you will fare in the arena of life and death?
        personally I do believe it is touch and go for ya laddy.
        you need MORE WISDOM and guts I think
        to me your;e not a fighter just a talker.

        now I will tell you some hints.
        FIGHT for your faith to be developed so it will KILL OFF ALL YOUR HUMAN UNBELIEF,
        You always find something wrong with everyone but yourself
        Why don't you list all the forums you post on and tell everyone how wrong they are.....
        Lucy, instead of accusing and attacking US all the time, why don't you go to this FORUM listed below, and tell them how Paul is false??

        I absolutely challenge YOU, I even dare YOU, to go to this forum, and tell them how false Paul was. Will you do it? Here is this forum address BELOW,

        http://www.eliyah.com/Forum/ubbthreads.php/

        Comment


        • #5
          edgar jones edification

          has some good examples on false teachings....
          eat the meat spit out the bones.....
          http://voiceofjesus.org/b2tableofcontents.html

          Comment


          • #6
            has some good examples on false teachings....
            eat the meat spit out the bones.....
            http://voiceofjesus.org/b2tableofcontents.html



            I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes; yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will.



            Paul: the Stranger PDF

            (Above PDF link downloads entire book in PDF.)


            No PDF reader? Click the Adobe icon below. Need help?



            Table of Contents PDF

            Foreword . . . . . . . . . "This has to be said" with credits to S. Kierkegaard PDF

            Preface . . . . . . . . . . . Identifying Paul as the stranger PDF
            Introduction. . . . . . . .Defining the purpose for this book. PDF

            Book I, Jesus
            Chapter 1 . . . . . . . . . . Prominent feature of the gospel according to Jesus PDF
            Chapter 2. . . . . . . . . . The Parable of the Prodigal Son and the Gospel. PDF
            Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . The Great Correlate PDF
            Chapter 4 . . . . . . . . . . Some Troublesome Sayings of Jesus PDF
            Chapter 5 . . . . . . . . . . The Will of God defined by Jesus PDF
            Chapter 6 . . . . . . . . . . The Kingdom of God and related isssues PDF
            Chapter 7 . . . . . . . . . . The Plan of Salvation according to Jesus PDF
            Chapter 8 . . . . . . . . . . Conduct in this world discussed PDF
            Chapter 9 . . . . . . . . . . Men, the Category of Abominations PDF
            Conclusion . . . . . . . . .Focus on the Principle PDF


            Book II, Paul
            Introduction . . . . . . . .The Beginning of the Problem PDF
            Chapter I . . . . . . . . . . The Problem of Paul and Jesus; a sampling of views PDF
            Chapter 2 . . . . . . . . . . The Source of True Guidance PDF
            Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . Paul's Office: as he defined it, and some conclusions PDF
            Chapter 4 . . . . . . . . . . Paul's Character: as derived from his epistles PDF
            Chapter 5 . . . . . . . . . . Did Paul err in Doctrine? PDF
            Chapter 6 . . . . . . . . . . Did Paul Tamper With God's Word? PDF
            Chapter 7 . . . . . . . . . . Did Paul Err in Logic? PDF
            Chapter 8 . . . . . . . . . . Did Paul Disobey His Lord? PDF
            Chapter 9 . . . . . . . . . . Was Paul a Liar? PDF
            Chapter 10 . . . . . . . . . Was Paul a Self Promoter? PDF
            Chapter 11 . . . . . . . . The Proofs of His Ministry PDF
            Chapter 12 . . . . . . . . . Paul's Gospel PDF


            Book III, Paul and Jesus
            Introduction. . . . . . . . The Basic Source for Spiritual Truth PDF
            Chapter 1 . . . . . . . . . . Paul and Jesus: Similarities PDF
            Chapter 2 . . . . . . . . . . The Differences: Love PDF
            Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . The Differences: Reconciliation of the World PDF
            Chapter 4 . . . . . . . . . . The Differences: Eternal Life, the Key Question PDF
            Chapter 5 . . . . . . . . . . The Differences: The Law PDF
            Conclusion . . . . . . . . Silver Tongue, Silver Pen, False Gospel PDF

            Book IV, The Church
            Introduction . . . . . . . . The Saint PDF
            Chapter 1 . . . . . . . . . . . A Study of the Word, Church PDF
            Chapter 2 . . . . . . . . . . . Jesus and the Church PDF
            Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . . The Little Flock and the Evolution of the Church PDF
            Chapter 4 . . . . . . . . . . . The Church of Today PDF
            Chapter 5 . . . . . . . . . . . The Church of Paul PDF
            Chapter 6 . . . . . . . . . . . The Church of Jesus PDF
            Chapter 7 . . . . . . . . . . . Comparisons and Conclusions PDF
            Chapter 8 . . . . . . . . . . . What, Then, Shall We Do? PDF
            Chapter 9 . . . . . . . . . . . The Ideal Fellowship PDF

            Comment


            • #7
              We already Have The Word Of YAHWEH To Eat.

              Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
              has some good examples on false teachings....
              eat the meat spit out the bones.....
              http://voiceofjesus.org/b2tableofcontents.html



              I thank thee, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to babes; yea, Father, for such was thy gracious will.



              Paul: the Stranger PDF

              (Above PDF link downloads entire book in PDF.)


              No PDF reader? Click the Adobe icon below. Need help?



              Table of Contents PDF

              Foreword . . . . . . . . . "This has to be said" with credits to S. Kierkegaard PDF

              Preface . . . . . . . . . . . Identifying Paul as the stranger PDF
              Introduction. . . . . . . .Defining the purpose for this book. PDF

              Book I, Jesus
              Chapter 1 . . . . . . . . . . Prominent feature of the gospel according to Jesus PDF
              Chapter 2. . . . . . . . . . The Parable of the Prodigal Son and the Gospel. PDF
              Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . The Great Correlate PDF
              Chapter 4 . . . . . . . . . . Some Troublesome Sayings of Jesus PDF
              Chapter 5 . . . . . . . . . . The Will of God defined by Jesus PDF
              Chapter 6 . . . . . . . . . . The Kingdom of God and related isssues PDF
              Chapter 7 . . . . . . . . . . The Plan of Salvation according to Jesus PDF
              Chapter 8 . . . . . . . . . . Conduct in this world discussed PDF
              Chapter 9 . . . . . . . . . . Men, the Category of Abominations PDF
              Conclusion . . . . . . . . .Focus on the Principle PDF


              Book II, Paul
              Introduction . . . . . . . .The Beginning of the Problem PDF
              Chapter I . . . . . . . . . . The Problem of Paul and Jesus; a sampling of views PDF
              Chapter 2 . . . . . . . . . . The Source of True Guidance PDF
              Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . Paul's Office: as he defined it, and some conclusions PDF
              Chapter 4 . . . . . . . . . . Paul's Character: as derived from his epistles PDF
              Chapter 5 . . . . . . . . . . Did Paul err in Doctrine? PDF
              Chapter 6 . . . . . . . . . . Did Paul Tamper With God's Word? PDF
              Chapter 7 . . . . . . . . . . Did Paul Err in Logic? PDF
              Chapter 8 . . . . . . . . . . Did Paul Disobey His Lord? PDF
              Chapter 9 . . . . . . . . . . Was Paul a Liar? PDF
              Chapter 10 . . . . . . . . . Was Paul a Self Promoter? PDF
              Chapter 11 . . . . . . . . The Proofs of His Ministry PDF
              Chapter 12 . . . . . . . . . Paul's Gospel PDF


              Book III, Paul and Jesus
              Introduction. . . . . . . . The Basic Source for Spiritual Truth PDF
              Chapter 1 . . . . . . . . . . Paul and Jesus: Similarities PDF
              Chapter 2 . . . . . . . . . . The Differences: Love PDF
              Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . The Differences: Reconciliation of the World PDF
              Chapter 4 . . . . . . . . . . The Differences: Eternal Life, the Key Question PDF
              Chapter 5 . . . . . . . . . . The Differences: The Law PDF
              Conclusion . . . . . . . . Silver Tongue, Silver Pen, False Gospel PDF

              Book IV, The Church
              Introduction . . . . . . . . The Saint PDF
              Chapter 1 . . . . . . . . . . . A Study of the Word, Church PDF
              Chapter 2 . . . . . . . . . . . Jesus and the Church PDF
              Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . . The Little Flock and the Evolution of the Church PDF
              Chapter 4 . . . . . . . . . . . The Church of Today PDF
              Chapter 5 . . . . . . . . . . . The Church of Paul PDF
              Chapter 6 . . . . . . . . . . . The Church of Jesus PDF
              Chapter 7 . . . . . . . . . . . Comparisons and Conclusions PDF
              Chapter 8 . . . . . . . . . . . What, Then, Shall We Do? PDF
              Chapter 9 . . . . . . . . . . . The Ideal Fellowship PDF
              Lucy, I would NOT eat any of it, because it is food sacrificed to an idol.

              We already Have The Word Of YAHWEH To Eat, and we don't need others words ABOUT the scriptures to eat. Lucy, I thought YOU only followed the Lamb? Really?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                Lucy, instead of accusing and attacking US all the time, why don't you go to this FORUM listed below, and tell them how Paul is false??

                I absolutely challenge YOU, I even dare YOU, to go to this forum, and tell them how false Paul was. Will you do it? Here is this forum address BELOW,

                http://www.eliyah.com/Forum/ubbthreads.php/

                how childish can you be Elijah

                the truth SIMPLY IS....if you feel ''accused'' it is of your own making for not loving the truth that sets us free.

                the KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH - SETS MEN free.
                all you do is write scriptures that mean nothing...
                why?
                there is no life in these.
                it is a waste of time because there is NO REALITY OF DIVINE LIVING IN THEM....or you.

                THE TRUTH IS....you are a closed up box of indoctrinations and when your box is overturned by the truth you creep back into the darkness
                you simply are not ready to be plugged yet,


                IS THIS
                THE FORUM that banned you all?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                  Lucy, I would NOT eat any of it, because it is food sacrificed to an idol.

                  We already Have The Word Of YAHWEH To Eat, and we don't need others words ABOUT the scriptures to eat. Lucy, I thought YOU only followed the Lamb? Really?
                  See and read.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    the stranger/strangers....edification edgar jones...

                    see if you can recognise THE STRANGER....

                    The immediate task is to state why I am designating Paul "the stranger."

                    supplemental to this task is to also identify the "strangers" who have followed Paul.
                    Then the task of the volume that follows, in four books, is to justify this designation.
                    The immediate task together with its supplement can be performed in few words;
                    the second task will require more because of the two thousand years of false testimony that has molded and cemented Christendom's exaltation of the man to the status of "Saint Paul."
                    It will require more than a few words to counter the false testimony of the two thousand years.

                    The immediate task begins here with the simple statement, which everyone knows and will not contest, that Paul (or Saul) of Tarsus was a stranger to the small fellowship of Jesus’ disciples that rallied around the Twelve after the Ascension.
                    He was never a member of their fellowship, though he may have sometimes been in the crowds that gathered about Jesus.
                    If he had been a disciple of the Pharisee, Gamaliel, as he claimed (Acts 22:3), he would have been in Jerusalem during Jesus’ ministry in that city.
                    I do not question this claim, as exposure to Pharisaism readily explains his early antagonism toward the little flock of disciples.
                    He was surely aware of the activities of Jesus and of his resurrection.
                    There is even a probability that he was in some way involved with the arrest and trial of the Lord.
                    Perhaps it was about then that he signed on to the police force of the High Priest and, powered by the zealotry of extreme Pharisaism, began to persecute the little flock.
                    Thereafter he was a stranger no more!

                    Nevertheless, he was a stranger on the day Jesus gathered his little flock about him and began to teach:

                    Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber; but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
                    To him the gatekeeper opens; the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers

                    (John 10:1-5).

                    There is an intriguing change of number in the last sentence of this utterance.
                    It begins in the singular, "A stranger," as though Jesus had a particular individual in mind.
                    Then it continues in the singular, " . . . but they will flee from him" again as though he spoke of a particular person.
                    Only then does he switch to the plural in emphasizing that the sheep not only will flee from this "stranger" but will not heed the voices of the many "strangers" they were certain to encounter.
                    Now we back up to the beginning of the utterance and discover that the singular prevails there also as we hear Jesus saying, "he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs in by another way," he continues, "That man is a thief and a robber." Over against "that man" he then proceeds to point to another single person, himself ". . . but he who enters by the door is the shepherd of the sheep."

                    It is my position that Jesus foresaw the activities of Paul and here designated him "the stranger," "that man" who is "a thief and a robber."
                    I do not mean that he knew the identity of this stranger and could have pointed to Paul in the crowds and said, "There is the man." (Although he was capable of that.)
                    Anyone in his position would have known the terrible hostility that his disciples must face after his departure and the strength of the powers to oppose them – powers that would surely unite under an energetic and charismatic leader for the purpose of robbing him of his sheep.
                    "That man" could oppose them in either of two ways:
                    first, as a violent enemy intent on physically destroying them and
                    second, as a non violent enemy coming to them in the guise of a shepherd and intent on leading them astray into spiritual destruction.
                    Paul did both.
                    First, violently and by his own testimony, he hounded them and hunted them to death and imprisonment.
                    Second, non-violently, he changed his tactics, approached them in the guise of a true shepherd and led them astray from the Truth.
                    It is certain that Jesus was not referring to some satanic spiritual power, because he clearly designated him, "That man."

                    Then who are the "strangers" of the last sentence of this utterance?
                    These are the myriad clergymen who, following Paul, have throughout the two thousand years been climbing in "by another way" than the door and stealing the sheep.
                    They are strangers to the Good Shepherd and his little flock.
                    It is not only that Paul is "the stranger."
                    No, he is only the first of a long line of strangers, a line that continues today to perform its terrible task.

                    Jesus allowed for only one flock of sheep, his "little flock," and he allowed for only one shepherd, saying,
                    And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be on flock, one shepherd

                    (John 10:16)

                    Without a doubt he has only himself in mind as he points to himself as the "good shepherd."
                    There is only one good shepherd.
                    All the others, beginning with Paul, must, then, be included in the designation, "strangers."
                    amen
                    cont...http://voiceofjesus.org/b2preface.htm#Preface

                    Then who are the "strangers" of the last sentence of this utterance?
                    These are the myriad clergymen who, following Paul, have throughout the two thousand years been climbing in "by another way" than the door and stealing the sheep.
                    They are strangers to the Good Shepherd and his little flock.
                    It is not only that Paul is "the stranger."
                    No, he is only the first of a long line of strangers, a line that continues today to perform its terrible task.

                    Jesus allowed for only one flock of sheep, his "little flock," and he allowed for only one shepherd, saying,

                    And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice.
                    So there shall be on flock, one shepherd

                    (John 10:16).

                    Without a doubt he has only himself in mind as he points to himself as the "good shepherd."
                    There is only one good shepherd.
                    All the others, beginning with Paul, must, then, be included in the designation, "strangers."

                    We get a better view of this exclusion of all others as shepherds of his little flock by observing that the tasks of a shepherd are basically three:
                    leader, feeder and protector.

                    These three functions are clearly implicit in, for example, Psalm 23. "He leads me beside the still waters," and, " He leads me in paths of righteousness," define the first function.
                    He is a feeder when "he makes me lie down in green pastures" and when "thou preparest a table before me in the presence of my enemies."
                    He is a protector when "Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil; for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me."

                    Jesus surely had this Psalm in mind when he identified himself as the Good Shepherd, for it begins, "The Lord is my shepherd."
                    We note here again the singular number.
                    It likewise must have been fundam[b]ental in his attack on the fear of death.
                    When he commanded his disciples, "Neither be ye called leaders"[/]
                    (Matthew 23:10) he was effectively eliminating "shepherd" from their job description.

                    Paul, however, provides for many shepherds, and himself claims to be a feeder.
                    His "shepherd" provision is stated in Ephesians 4:11:
                    And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers .

                    The Greek for "pastors" here is precisely the same word translated "shepherd" in John 10.
                    Then, of course, while never designating himself as a pastor or shepherd, he sees himself as a feeder:
                    I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it (I Corinthians 3:2]

                    When we look about us in Christendom, we can hardly see the sky for the horde of shepherds, or "pastors" that the church supplies to the world.
                    It is my position that these are those whom Jesus designated "strangers," and that they bring themselves under condemnation by accepting the designation, "pastor" all in total ignorance of the significance of their Lord's words.

                    Be assured that I thoroughly understand the power of this deception because I was once one of them . . . and I was wrong.
                    If there is hope for me, there must be hope for all.

                    I have stated above why I an designating Paul "the stranger".
                    Therefore, the first and immediate task is finished.
                    Now on to the second, that of justifying the first.
                    We will see, among other things, that Paul's doctrine is "strange."

                    This will further justify his designation as a stranger together with all those other strangers out there eagerly following him, as I did, and heaping up condemnation for themselves.
                    in my opinion Yeshua is the divine teacher by His Christ spirit
                    NO others are entitled and so abuse His clear instructions.

                    so to disagree with Yeshua's instruction
                    would be must foolish and under the banner of this warning
                    ''GET AWAY FROM Me YE WORKERS OF INIQUITY, I never knew you''

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Then according to your logic.

                      Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
                      see if you can recognise THE STRANGER....



                      amen
                      cont...http://voiceofjesus.org/b2preface.htm#Preface
                      Our mission is to proclaim our Lord Yeshua lesson that He was the "sole teacher." (Matthew 23:8-11).
                      He sternly told the apostles they were not to call themselves or anyone else a "teacher"
                      In John, Jesus explained why when He insisted that the "apostolos is not more important than the one who sent him." (John 13:16.)
                      The Greek word apostolos means either the title of Apostle or messenger or one that is sent. Here Jesus meant He was more important than any Apostle or messenger.
                      Then according to your logic, why did they listen to Paul, if he was the "stranger" ?

                      Did Messiah NOT say- My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:27-29.

                      By all means, please ignore this scripture too as evidence, that your logic is false, Lucy.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        the church police has arrived...

                        Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                        Then according to your logic, why did they listen to Paul, if he was the "stranger" ?

                        Did Messiah NOT say- My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John 10:27-29.

                        By all means, please ignore this scripture too as evidence, that your logic is false, Lucy.
                        here comes the church police.....
                        their tack is always
                        don't worry what MESSIAH SAYS....
                        lets worship saul/paul the stranger.
                        DONT ALLOW THE TRUTH TO ESCAPE... close the doors fast.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
                          here comes the church police.....
                          their tack is always
                          don't worry what MESSIAH SAYS....
                          lets worship saul/paul the stranger.
                          DONT ALLOW THE TRUTH TO ESCAPE... close the doors fast.
                          You did exactly this, did YOU not?

                          I can't help but smile..

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            for further gross details on saul/paul....

                            Paul on Women, Sex and Dress

                            In Jesus's day, there were "prohibitions against teaching women Torah."
                            ("Women in Judaism," Wikipedia accessed 6/4/2010).

                            Orthodox Jews still struggle with their oral law prohibition against teaching women the Torah. (Think of the movie Yentyl.)
                            They try to find ways to limit the rule or have loopholes.
                            See Rabbi Kahn's "Jewish Education for Women."

                            Because women couldn't be taught the Torah, women obviously also couldn't teach the Torah.

                            The Pharisee party in Jesus's day was the only party that believed in oral Torah.
                            Thus, the Pharisee party is the only party that held these views in Jesus' day.
                            The Sadducee party believed the only Torah was the written Torah, and rejected the Pharisees' doctrine that could ever be an oral Torah delivered at Sinai that was not written down.
                            Hence, the only source possible of this doctrine in Jesus's day were the Pharisees.
                            By the oral Torah prohibition that women should not be taught Torah, this prevented women under the authority of Pharisees from teaching anyone else since they obviously knew nothing about Torah without being permitted to have a teacher.

                            Jesus repeatedly challenged this gender restriction about teaching the word of God to women.
                            He encouraged women to learn from Him the Way of the Kingdom despite oral Torah doctrine being to the contrary.
                            Jesus clearly elevated women to equality with men as able to be taught God's principles, e.g., talking to the Samaritan woman by the well; his relations to Mary and Martha

                            (Luke 8:38), etc.

                            By Jesus teaching Mary and Martha, now they obviously could tell others what Jesus taught.
                            Mary and Martha, if asked by a young boy "What did Jesus teach?" knew that they could now tell what Jesus taught.
                            They didn't have to keep silent because of the old oral law of the Pharisees.

                            Or do you think Jesus intended that the women, if asked the same question by the boy, had to say "Well, I'm sorry I know what Jesus taught, and I would love to share it with you, but you are a boy and I'm a woman, so I have to say nothing to you about what Jesus teaches?"
                            Of course not.
                            By Jesus teaching women about the word of God, Jesus implicitly was authorizing them and mandating them to tell men and women what Jesus taught about the word of God.

                            Paul emphasizes, however, oral law principles nowhere uttered in the Bible that restrain women's full and equal role as disciples in the church.
                            Thus, these restraints solely rest on Paul's authority.


                            Now, before I mention Paul principles, I wish to declare that if God truly demanded women must not speak out at church, raise no questions there, and not teach or not ever have authority over men, or women must wear a head-covering / veil in church, or men should not do so, I would obey.

                            But all these notions appear from only one voice in the entire "Bible."
                            And as discussed below, they are often at odds with inspired Scripture.
                            Why so late in God's self-revelation would Paul uniquely be given a set of commands seemingly so at odds with equality and kindness that Jesus offered to women?
                            Paul's words read like unique ordinances that nowhere else have any analog in the true Bible.
                            So what is the impression left by Paul's words?

                            The Ugly Impression of Paul's Words

                            A defender of Paul, Henry Chadwick, in his book The Enigma of St. Paul. The Ethel M. Wood Lecture delivered before the University of London on 27 February 1968 (London: The Athlone press, 1969) at 8 puts it succinctly:

                            [An] accusation against the apostle has been that he is principally responsible for introducing into the stream of Christian history a deep-seated fear and hostility towards sex.
                            And it should be conceded at once that there are passages that make it easy and natural to interpret him as a misogynist celibate, with an obsession about women’s hair so acute that he demands the wearing of hats [sic: veils] in church, and with the strongest views of female subordination.
                            ‘It is good that a man should not touch a woman.’ ‘
                            The women must keep silence in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
                            If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.’
                            And so on.

                            As to marriage itself, contrast Jesus who speaks of celibacy as something for some but not all disciples.
                            It is not a command or even an exhortation. Matt. 19:12.

                            But in 1 Cor. 10:27-28, Paul advises those not married to stay that way:
                            "Are you bound to a wife?
                            Do not seek to be free.
                            Are you free from a wife?
                            Do not seek marriage."
                            While Paul then says it is not a sin to marry, he clearly says in the literal Greek "do not seek a wife."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              cont.. the same saul/paul ghastly teachings.....sickening.

                              And Paul makes clear elsewhere that by deciding to marry, one takes their focus off God and becomes worldly, focused upon their spouse.
                              Paul thereby undermines the message of Scripture in Genesis that it was "not good for Adam to be alone."

                              Paul writes:
                              But I would have you without carefulness.
                              He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:
                              33But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.
                              34There is difference also between a wife and a virgin.
                              The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. (1 Cor. 7:32-34 KJV.)

                              Note: A few manuscripts begin verse 34 "and his interests are divided." (See variants 1 Cor.)

                              And it is in this same context Paul teaches "it is good for a man not to touch a woman" (1 Cor. 7:1 KJV)
                              And consistent with this, Paul says a daughter is better off unmarried than married:
                              "So then both he that giveth his own virgin daughter in marriage doeth well; and he that giveth her not in marriage shall do better." (1 Cor. 7:38 KJV.)

                              But God says to the contrary that marriage is good for a man, implying marriage for both men and women is a more honorable estate than perpetual bachelorhood or maidenhood.
                              God said: "It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him.” (Gen. 2:18.)
                              I also have to think God knew they would touch each other or He would not have made them physically attractive to each other.

                              Paul elsewhere makes it appear that by marrying, one betrays their first husband -- Christ:
                              "I have espoused you to one husband," Paul tells the Corinthians metaphorically, "that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ" (2 Cor. 11:2).
                              Thus, while previously in 1 Cor.
                              Paul said marriage was not a sin, the implication from this metaphor in 2 Cor. is that by marrying we become adulterous, taking our eyes off Christ and putting them on another -- our spouse.

                              Paul repeats this in 1 Timothy 5:9-12,14 KJV if you read attentively Paul's implication about younger widows, clearly making remarriage a sin for younger widows under 60.
                              (Younger women may marry to have children, and not purely for companionship, Paul adds.)
                              Paul says a "wantonness against Christ" is reflected by a young widow's "desire to remarry" which brings the widows under 60 "damnation" as this desire to remarry means they have "thrown off their first faith" toward Christ:

                              9 Let not a widow be taken into the number [for charity] under threescore years old [i.e., 60 years old],... 11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry (sic: "desire to marry" ASV); 12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

                              Obviously, Paul is repeating the same notion we read in 1 Cor. 7:32-34 and 2 Cor. 11:2 that somehow, by marriage to another human, we necessarily take our eyes off Christ, our spiritual husband, and hence these "younger widows" become "wanton against Christ" reflected by a "desire to marry" which here Paul equates to "damnation, because they have cast off their "first faith."



                              But does God ever teach a 100% love and devotion for God necessarily means that human love is such a distraction that we should abandon it, as Paul claims?
                              Since God does command love for our neighbor (who is everyone, Jesus teaches) and otherwise does not like 'long prayers,' as Jesus taught (contrary to Paul's requirement that we "pray incessantly"), then God has not only allowed us time and flexibility to form loving relationships with others, but also has commanded it. Therefore, we must conclude the love and devotion to God does not mean cutting off all other human love and devotion. As Jesus taught, such loving human relationships simply cannot be a love deeper and bigger than our Love and Devotion for God.

                              So in sum,Paul teaches that one "should not seek to marry," and that those who do marry necessarily for companionship (ordained in Genesis) are no longer concerned "about the Lord's affairs."
                              Thus Paul has changed marriage to a nonbeneficial institution which is contrary to God's word to Moses.
                              As Paul's sympathizers even admit:
                              "He is counseling Christians of both sexes who are unmarried to remain so, and thus to be celibate." (Decker, "Patriarchy.")
                              And while Paul in 1 Corinthians said it was not a sin to marry, by the time of 2 Corinthians, Paul implies by marrying we adulterously have abandoned Jesus.


                              (How many Paulinist churches preach all Paul taught, like "do not seek marriage" if you are unmarried?
                              Or that by marrying you become worldy?
                              Perhaps you are even an adulterer by marrying after finding Christ!
                              NONE IN MY EXPERIENCE! Instead, they urge marriage, are pleased to marry off their daughters, and hope for children -- Praise God they do not listen to Paul at least on this one important issue!)

                              lolol

                              SELF-CONTRADICTION WARNING:
                              Paul's letter to Timothy contains a contradiction, as Paulinists admit.
                              Paul writes: "I will therefore that the younger women marry," says 1 Tim. 5:14 (KJV), "bear children, guide the house."

                              How do die-hard Paul fans handle this?



                              it is up to holy godly people to discern THE TRUTH so eat the meat spit out the bones.....http://www.jesuswordsonly.com/recomm...n-and-sex.html

                              I guess the BEST THING is to view the fruits of Pauline church............YESHUA SAID '' BE A FRUIT INSPECTOR''
                              2000yrs of not 1 person ever becoming the ''image of christ'' in ministry or reality

                              we have had .... a series of
                              hirelings
                              angels of light
                              wolves
                              thieves
                              false doctrines
                              wars and confusion +

                              nothing is like THE CHURCH OF THE SAVIOUR and His gospel.
                              only the blind would agree with anything saul/paul had to say.....
                              * THEY ARE FREE MASONS with a Pauline agenda from the secret society from a very ancient bloodline...
                              * spiritually stupid
                              * angels of light.

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