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  • The Yoke!

    Hi Everyone,

    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Under the Law, the Sanhedrin, the Jewish Supreme Court, was ruled by a man called the Nasi or Prince of the Court. The Nasi was often the High Priest, but the King could also serve as the Nasi. In the absence of the Nasi, the Vice-President of the Court, referred to as the Ab Bet Din or Father of the House of Justice, presided over the decisions made by the Sanhedrin. In the spiritual, Messiah Yahushua occupies the position of Nasi.

    By Jewish Law, a community of 120 persons was sufficient to establish a Small Sanhedrin. When Messiah ascended, the community of Believers in Jerusalem numbered 120 (see Acts 1:15); therefore, a spiritual Small Sanhedrin consisting of 23 Judges was convened to decide on a replacement for Judas. I desire that all come to an awareness here that the Law and the Prophets did not end with the Death, Burial, and 3rd Day Resurrection of Messiah Yahushua; otherwise, why do we see the Disciples continuing to structure themselves and to make decisions for themselves according to the Law (see Deuteronomy 17:8-13 and John 20:23 in connection with Matthew 16:19 and Matthew 18:18) and the Prophets and the Psalms?

    Eventually, the number of Believers at Jerusalem (see Acts 21:20) were sufficient to convene a spiritual Sanhedrin of 70 Judges to make a decision concerning the status and duty of Gentiles whom ELOHIM was calling to occupy a position in the Body of Messiah. In the physical, only a Great Sanhedrin had the authority to expand the Courtyard of the Temple. In the spiritual, this relates directly to converting Gentiles.

    At the time of Acts 15, there existed a strong party within the community of Believers at Jerusalem that were insisting that converting Gentiles must undergo physical circumcision and also be compelled to follow the Law in a physical sense just like the believing Jews who had come to believe in Messiah. In the Book of Acts, this party of Believers in Messiah is called a Sect of the Pharisees (Acts 15:5), and James appears to have been their leader (see Galatians 2:12). Please understand here that belief in Messiah Yahushua did not end the obligation of Believing Jews to follow the Law in a physical sense. Acts 21 shows us that these believing Jews actually numbered in the thousands, and these believing Jews were all zealous for the Law.

    It is my belief that James occupied the position of Ab Bet Din at the Acts 15 Jerusalem Council. While Peter and Paul and Barnabas did give their testimony or opinion, James is the one who renders the sentence of the Council:

    Act 15:19
    19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to ELOHIM:

    Please notice that the reference to a "sentence" by James above follows the language of Deuteronomy 17:9-11, and please notice that once such a sentence is rendered and accepted by a Sanhedrin, that this judgment carries the same weight as if ELOHIM HIMSELF has spoken. Please examine on your own and make an effort to follow the argument of James in Acts 15. His argument is based upon the fulfillment of Scripture, and the Disciples all accepted his "sentence" because none desired to hinder the fulfillment of Scripture.

    The arguments of Peter and Paul and Barnabas were not sufficient to bring the Council to a consensus of opinion concerning converting Gentiles. There are reasons for this, but suffice it to say, the Sentence of the Ab Bet Din, James, carried the day.

    I desire that all here recognize that the Gentiles who are turning to ELOHIM were formerly Lo Ammi, that is, Not My People. By turning to ELOHIM, these Gentiles are in the process of becoming Ammi, that is, My People. How exactly does a Gentile move from Lo Ammi to Ammi?

    Perhaps we should take the time to examine the dogma or opinion of Peter as stated in Acts 15? Why did his judgment not carry the day with the Council?

    Thanking in advance all that may be moved to reply, I am,

    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  • #2

    how is this information going to heal the sick and set the captives free Allen?
    how does this information heal the broken hearted and loose people from sin Allen?
    how does this information help others who have death in sadness in their lives Allen.?
    isn't this really in the ''useless information dept'' as some people deal with gross sadness?
    it well may have been interesting 2000yrs ago and written for our learning, but how does it actually assist dying people today?


    we dont live there 2000yrs ago Allen. But u do!

    We are NOW and our '''now''' has massive issues in people's lives - horrible issues that need DIVINE INTERVENTION.
    you need to stop living in the OT Allen
    you need to stop trying to become a faux jew and begin to actively pursue ''DIVINE LIFE CORRECTLY.''
    your in the past
    a time warped religious person.

    YOUR OWN PERSONAL LIFE needs massive help yet you ''fiddle'' while Rome burns, fiddle around information that doesn't matter one hoot in hell to today's people.
    you have wasted 65 yrs of religious fiddling with the scriptures thinking you have life but have nothing but a sheer waste of time.

    they are sick of hearing limp ineffective blabber from religious men with unprofitable religious mindsets that help no one.

    Go back to your drawing board Allen and a get a life [ of the divine kind, the jews never had]

    for your learning.
    some very wise information
    Six things that Galatians show the Law CANNOT accomplish:
    1. The Law cannot JUSTIFY the sinner (Gal. 2:16)
    2. The Law cannot give man RIGHTEOUS standing before God (Gal 2:21)
    3. The Law cannot give the gift of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 3:2)
    4. The Law cannot guarantee our spiritual inheritance (Gal. 3:18)
    5. The Law cannot GIVE LIFE (Gal. 3:21)
    6. The Law cannot GIVE LIBERTY (Gal. 4:8-10)
    you cannot argue with galatians Allen - it is all there in black and white.
    if you choose to argue with Paul and his revelation - lo ammi is a certainity in your life and u need to repent pal.

    again just so you can understand your deception.

    Six things that Galatians show the Law CANNOT accomplish:
    1. The Law cannot JUSTIFY the sinner (Gal. 2:16)
    2. The Law cannot give man RIGHTEOUS standing before God (Gal 2:21)
    3. The Law cannot give the gift of the Holy Spirit (Gal. 3:2)
    4. The Law cannot guarantee our spiritual inheritance (Gal. 3:18)
    5. The Law cannot GIVE LIFE (Gal. 3:21)
    6. The Law cannot GIVE LIBERTY (Gal. 4:8-10)
    the law died in 70ad.
    do you think that u have to live in 30ad for then grace did not abound - so for you it is more ''comfortable'' to be without grace so you can hold your sabbath saturdays, not eat bacon, gaze at the new moon by yourself and sleep in a cold tent over Tabs - see GRACE DOES NOT ABOUND THRU ALL THESE ACTIONS.
    why has the devil got your tail?

    when Messiah ministered to the people they were told to repent, sin no more, believe God the father - not once did the Savour have fellowship with the Pharisee on a daily basis.
    there were NO cups of teas in the vestry.
    It seems the Messiah did not mix with a ''nest of vipers whose father was the devil''.

    how strange They all did not ''get together'' compare notes and have good old heart to heart brethren meetings.
    why not? why didn't they discuss the law - talk about ''the finer points''

    infact they were so divided 11 times they tried to kill jesus and 6 times He said ''BUT I SAY'' - there was incompatability there because it was a transition of an old covenent converging with the DIVINE NEW COVENANT - it is the case of the old wine skin cannot survive the new wine.

    when you place law and grace together in a melting pot a hybrid is birthed out and YOU ARE A LO AMMI just as the forum name dictates.
    you well may think it funny to mess with lo ammi and ''spin'' it to others - but the fact remains - lo ammi exist in you.


    • #3
      The Apostolic Assembly Sat In The Seat Of Moses!

      Hi Lucy,

      Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

      Shabbat Shalom!

      You wrote concerning my last post to you:

      "isn't this really in the ''useless information dept'' as some people deal with gross sadness?
      it well may have been interesting 2000yrs ago and written for our learning, but how does it actually assist dying people today?

      People today die basically for two reasons:
      • They die for the sin of Adam. This would include children under the age of accountability and all who have no knowledge of the Law, that is, all anomos folks.
      • And they die for their own sin.
      The latter would include you and me. We both have an awareness or knowledge of the Law.

      I know that you have knowledge of the Law because of your fight against the keeping or observance of the Law. Your fight is especially aroused and highlighted whenever the keeping of the Sabbath Day in a physical sense is mentioned to you.

      This is what your Messiah had to say concerning the Law:

      Matthew 5:17-20

      17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
      18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
      19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
      20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

      The Law requires that all those that are defiled by physical death (see Numbers 19), the Law requires that the defiled undergo the lawful process of purification.

      How do all that have died in the past, how are they purified from physical death, and what is it that gives them purification from the defilement of death?

      Paul has taught, and I also teach that the resurrection from the dead purifies from the defilement of death. Since the general resurrection is yet to occur - it would seem that the Statute of the Law (Numbers 19) requiring purification from the defilement of death for all that have hope of living again - it would seem that purification from death has not fully been fulfilled, and, therefore, did not come to an end in 70 AD as you are in the habit of teaching.

      If you accept Yahushua as your YAHWEH, then great danger exists for you because you teach against the Law. This the Pharisees did not do. They may have been hypocrites, but they knew better than to teach others against the Law.

      While Messiah did woe the Pharisees for many shortcomings and failings, they received HIS endorsement for the reason indicated right here:

      Matthew 23:1-2
      1 Then spake Yahushua to the multitude, and to his disciples,
      2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
      3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

      The Sect of the Pharisees was the ruling sect in the Body of Believers after Messiah ascended into Heaven. They sat in the spiritual Seat of Moses, and they made a decision in Acts 15 that is still binding today, and you are instructed and required by Messiah's own words to give heed to what they have determined for Gentile Believers.

      If not, then you may perhaps be required to pay the price for your insubordination and rebellion:

      Deuteronomy 17:12
      12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before YAHWEH thy ELOHIM, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and thou shalt put away the evil from Israel.

      Messiah Yahushua is YAHWEH, and Messiah Yahushua is both KING and HIGH PRIEST, and Messiah Yahushua through HIS Believers has told you what you must do as a Gentile Believer in order to do good. You would be wise to heed HIS instruction.

      Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

      Sincerely, Latuwr
      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


      • #4
        NO AL THE BIBLE BACKS ME UP every time...

        *i am not a ''lo ammi'' so how can i accept what a lo ammi would post?

        *i am not an unreal stiff cardboard paper cut out religious dolly either pretending i am a jew

        *nor have i wasted 65 of my years in a counterfeit religion that goes exactly nowhere, helps no-one, divides families, and and and is full of useless information that no one is really that interested in .

        perhaps you have forgotten Al,

        THE CROWDS FOLLOWED MESSIAH not the boring pharisees.

        He was the Man with the excellent Plan that brings a new reality of life and new substances to His teachings and new advises.

        why even Nicodemus ran away from the boring law too, as do all believers in Christ and His power.
        it turned out to be simply boringggggg for him as well after he knew the Saviour and His ministry.

        Trouble is Al, YOUR NOT THAT amazing and hardly astonishing either rambing on and on .
        ummm whats that called, this constant religious rambling that does not have any LIFE REALITY within it?
        yes its called babble from babylon. STAGNANT thats it stagnant.
        as for your ''teaching'' it is simply your teaching.

        I do believe Abba would be bored silly too.
        I do believe if you had a real conversation with Abba He would say ''ALLEN I HAVE MOVED ON - WHY NOT MOVE WITH ME''

        if you live like you post what a waste of a life.
        it reminds me of the JWs and how they are so childish and boring always repeating the same old same old mantras each week full of stagnant lies in dirty ponds on corrupted teaching.

        its time to undress Al, from the '' OT religious garbs - those smelly old clothes and stinky prayer shawls that are killing you stone dead'' and get into the white robes of true redemption, + be loosed from the ''LO'' in lo ammi and become a simple AMMI.

        what you believe in today is non riveting, non essential, and now non existant. you believe a lie.
        your whole life and family ruined by a lie from the pit of hell but the worst thing is YOU DONT SEE IT OR UNDERSTAND IT for you have allowed others to do your thinking for you most of the time.

        i dont think there is anything sadder than a whole life wasted on religion.
        Once you know the Saviour there is NO way a believer will fall back into law keeping for the jews only,


        • #5
          holy anger see my pal hoodwinkled

          from you post above.......
          I know that you have knowledge of the Law because of your fight against the keeping or observance of the Law. Your fight is especially aroused and highlighted whenever the keeping of the Sabbath Day in a physical sense is mentioned to you.
          well perhaps your'e right.

          To see you're life BUTCHERED, cut to ribbons and wasted and ruined by some usa religious dead pervert - who CONNED YOU and influenced you so badly INTO BELIEVING A LIE does annoy me, YES I AGREE.

          i am entitled to holy anger when lies are believed and the Saviour died to set you free but you live like a darn captive in the street of chains.

          And to see your family damaged and now desimated BY wrong beliefs [u then thrust upon them] of a rapist [ as publically declared] who then in turn laughted at y'all when he and his victim of incest and lust went dancing after 6pm on a friday night and when the raped defiled and hurting molested victim timidly ask of this ''apostle ''- wont they see us'' the raping Apostle- [that ugly little man with snakey eyes and thick jowls and a head like the devil incarnate] reply was '' they are too stupid, and i have trained them to stay at home [parapharsed]''

          yes YOU MAY well SAY I GET A WEE BIT CHEESED OFF of your saturday prison sentence.
          yes YOU MAY well SAY I GET A WEE BIT CHEESED OFF of your refusal to appreciate the NT on this whole issue and the work of many EX sabbatherians who studied and who humbled themselves to seek to be approved and find out the truth from USA religious crack pots of which you now are at one with.

          2 crack pots together - yes i am annoyed.
          to see you fritter away your life, trapped by a pervert's belief he copied from proven lying others ..... shezz.
          BTW Mr Boring
          you are to observe the Sabbath correctly.
          If you actually observed the Sabbath, u would keep all the rules that the Jews did. If you do not observe the Sabbath according to ALL the OT rules, then you are breaking it. BTW - go read......
          Exodus 31
          , “every one that profaneth it shall surely be put to death.”
          That would require you to be put to death for anything as minor as tying your shoe laces (work) or traveling more than a “Sabbath’s Day Journey” (less than one mile). Jesus was a known sabbath breaker - me too.
          ''Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day,” Matt 12:2.
          “The LAW made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did, by the which we draw nigh unto God,” Heb 7:19

          your'e so pathetic on this issue, and act like a robot and a male cardboard cut out without substance - and u want me to be a cracked potted as yourself.
          and worst of all you have developed into a boring religious bore of ''harp harp harping and an OT time warped harpy''.
          no your'e an old boring bore that is even worst- than worst.
          it gets worse as my friend has become.....
          a pensioner an old aged pensioner - a boring bore, stuffed full of religion and is boringggggggg to the uttermost.-------------------------------------BTW did you know there 1521 things that Jews forbid on Sabbath.

          allow me to a thrust THIS AT YOU, old aged boring man + boring person who cannot think for himself and who has to be told how to think by a con artist.

          WHY WAS JOHN THE B. ASKING the nation to REPENT ?
          the conclusion is............

          the OT jewish lawkeepers were jewish lawbreakers that were outside the kingdom of God and needed to repent and THEY KEPT THE SABBATH. [so much for holy saturdays.]

          well NO I AM NOT LAUGHING it is so sad to see you so bound up in chains from another person's vile theories.

          so yes i am annoyed.

          now another thing i will thrust upon you.
          WHY DID THE HOLY SPIRIT COME - IF SATURDAY GUT FEISTS, MADE YOU HOLY keeping the law to the jew.
          Isaiah prophesied (in Isaiah 28) that the Baptism of the Holy Ghost would be the REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest.
          ooooooh dear God in heaven you are so warped and outa sinc and boringggggggggggggggg.

          now another thing i will trust upon you- dreary man.

          HOW COME a believer is given every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places?
          I HAVE THIS BY HIS GRACE ALONE and not 1 law to the jew in place in my life hurrah.
          why not come out from your cardboard piety and BECOME A REAL MAN - i dare u.

          John 9:16,
          the Pharisees said, "This man is not of God, because he keepeth not the sabbath day." so MR PHARISEE BORING PAPER MAN u charge me with the same charge.

          why not read the items below that prove u wrong.
          Last edited by LucySmith; 12-11-2011, 02:35 AM.


          • #6
            allen - here is a 'tip'' to assist you.[plz acept it as a gift from me]

            i would love you to become real -Neo.
            i mean A REAL MAN not a paper cutout.

            very few men are REAL MEN they always reflect their own opinions as ''men do right in their own eyes'' so sayeth the bible. 'men do what is right in the own eyes '' but please notice MESSIAH never did this - only His father's will and what the Father told HIM to say and do.

            NOW THAT IS A REAL MAN- Neo.

            now for a revelation
            ALL MEN no matter their name, their rank or their belief - REMAIN IN BONDAGE TO THEIR SOUL.
            THEIR SOUL, cannot break free from their belief - it takes a divine breakthru or a miracle to have those chains removed from the soul - golden chains- that form our belief yet no man hasever walked the same way as Messiah.

            dont you think this is very strange?
            yes, they talk His words and study His words but not 1 man has ever become THE IMAGE OF CHRIST.
            THEIR SOUL REMAINED CHAINED to their personal belief - that is why the whole world lies in deception Neo.

            but what is the ''soul'' in bondage?

            the flesh mindset, the world mindset, the devilish controlled mindset -Jesus refused to have for this soul/mind is death.

            so How does a REAL MAN, Neo escape?

            WE ARE TO BECOME REAL SPIRITUAL PEOPLE by having the same mind as Messiah - for to succeed in all things.
            when we put on the mind of Christ - our spiritual man waxes strong and is well able to defeat the devil.

            IT IS OUR TURN NOW NEO, TO ACT THE ROLE we were cast into.
            so now i shall give you my gift of edification so now u can understand somethings u never knew or suspected.


            prt 2



            • #7
              Light Upon The Face Of The Deep!

              Hi Lucy,

              Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

              Thank you for your link to:


              And their articles on the Ancients. I quote below from the second article on the Ancients, page 141:

              "There were certain things that Jesus fulfilled in His
              ministry and other things He left to be fulfilled by the
              many membered body of Christ.

              In context there, the author is considering the Cup of Suffering from which all true Believers also drink. This Cup is a Cup of Blessing which we drink, and this Cup comes from Messiah as a Drink Offering (see Joel 2:14) which we have received from on high. This Cup is the Blood of Messiah, and as I have already written to you, this Blood is the spiritual fulfillment of the Law. Of course, you cringe at the idea that the Law contains important things which are right now in the process of fulfillment, from which we are required to drink. I hope that Messiah will purify you from this aversion to HIS Law so that you might more fully grow in the knowledge and grace of Messiah.

              You wrote:

              "WE ARE TO BECOME REAL SPIRITUAL PEOPLE by having the same mind as Messiah - for to succeed in all things.
              when we put on the mind of Christ - our spiritual man waxes strong and is well able to defeat the devil.

              IT IS OUR TURN NOW NEO, TO ACT THE ROLE we were cast into.
              so now i shall give you my gift of edification so now u can understand somethings u never knew or suspected.

              I have known for a long time, Lucy, that the life I live in the physical is ordered so that I might understand what happened among the Ancients to destroy their peace and unity, and I proceed with the hope of restoration because I have been blessed to see and understand desolation and destruction and separation through the suffering of Messiah Yahushua and through my own suffering as ordained by HIS Law. In writing this to you, I am not bearing witness to myself; rather, I write so that you might become more aware of the great height and depth of the love of Messiah Yahushua which is the fulfillment of the Law (see Romans 13:10). So, don't run from the Law, Lucy. It is light, and it is therefore good, giving light through the Love of Messiah Yahushua to those who have dwelt in deep darkness, that is, from Lo Ammi to Ammi.

              Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

              Sincerely, Latuwr
              The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


              • #8
                I GIVE THIS WORK as a reminder Neo

                that Neo had to learn HOW TO BE RELEASED from the Matrix and trained to be made whole.

                the training did not include the habits and beliefs of the Matrix - these were all ABANDONED infavour of a New way OF BELIEVING.

                THE OT was a shadow of the things to come only.
                The NT is ''the reality of the things to come thru Messiah.

                the ancient religious sin and death belief of works for the jew - ceased.
                the new way outside the Matrix released the bondages of all religion and into THE TRUTH.

                MESSIAH - denounced the Pharisee with ''woe'' 7 times.

                i would like you to consider this please Spying.

                why did the Pharisee follow the Messiah and why didnt Messiah follow them? They were an established Matrix - but He said ''come out of her My people'' - and in coming out into the truth - we cannot retain the lies from the Matrix.

                so stop living in the Matrix Neo.. be trained to BELIEVE and receive THE TRUTH so it overtakes the lying lies of herbert - ALLEN BURY HERBERT.............................................

                HE LIED.

                Messiah fulfilled the law Spying.
                i cringe at your belief from a pervert that is a lie.

                as for the ''cup'' - the ''cup'' to drink was the total REVERSAL of everything Messiah has been trained to believe and act upon.
                - ''the cup'' was to surrender back to carnal minded sin and then die from this sin for all men.
                He died as sin for us all and no one can take away from this sacrifice.
                He had to go and turn His back on everything He knew as the truth.
                He alone KNOWS this cup. HE IS LIFE -YET - FOR ALL MEN He gave up His life for the ungodly.

                as for an overcomer believer - THEY ARE TRAINED TO SUBMIT TO THEIR ARISEN SPIRITAL MAN and to denounce their soulish ties = so this is their cup so to speak.

                keeping a sabbath from a rebellious nation, who never did it correctly has nothing spiritual to do with the ''suffering'' if u think this - its a darn lying lie.
                the sabbath for today is resting our burdens of rebellion against him - in HIS CAPABLE CARE.
                THIS IS THE HARDEST thing to do for the carnalminded religious pews.

                very few enter into this promised land - as reflected in Joshua and Caleb and none get there by ''works'' of a jew.
                herbert Lied to you Allen, that aweful monster and perverted creep and a slime on humanity lied.
                and now you believe His lie.
                you believe the ''bottom of the bird cage''.

                become REAL ALLEN - i dare you.


                • #9
                  Allen the wise ancients understand......................

                  wisdom comes back into the world of unwise men.

                  there are 2 yokes
                  the 'yoke'' of the jew and his law
                  the ''yoke'' of the law of the Lord.

                  I was in the garden today and i know what the ''yoke'' of the Law of God is.................

                  it is spiritual meaning the 9 fruits and the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit............................
                  the ''yoke'' of Jesus allows these laws to be written upon our hearts SO WE CAN KEEP THEM all in a row.
                  and the gifts can be used so we are not ignorant of these signs and wonders - they need to be used.

                  however - it is all a progress not of the works of the Jews but ''working out our salvation in fear and trembling''.
                  we now need LIFE FOR OUR SPIRIT.
                  what the yoke of Jesus does Allen is to show us how to be as spiritual as He is and how to arise and grow up into a real man as He was/is real.
                  TO BE UNLIMITED AND NO LONGER BOUND to the law of sin and death.

                  we need the 18 gifts/fruit to progressively florish in our lives.
                  here is a witness to the truth FROM larry wilson
                  “There are those in religious circles who by reason of their natural attributes are able to influence people into the kingdom of religious confusion.
                  You will know them for they lack humility and speak of their own works.
                  They seek to build towers and monuments unto themselves.
                  They gather people unto themselves for they are easy to follow.
                  Their appetite is satisfied with looking upon their own works and receiving the compliments of man.
                  They run programmes and lay plans to achieve results as does the man of enterprise and greed.
                  They have a form of Godliness but lack the power thereof.
                  [b]I counsel you to look deep.
                  Look deep before you follow these shepherds any further. Where do they lead?
                  Do they lead you to the green fields of My pasture or are you in the sheep-pen of hunger and thirst with the dry dust of man’s words.
                  Look deep I say, beyond the surface and see if the foundation of the tower is My Love for it is only on this foundation that somebody can claim that they serve me.
                  Listen deep, I say, beyond their words into the heart for only there you will know the voice of My true shepherds.
                  Many are deceived into believing that they must revere and follow the successful pastors.

                  I release you from this deception.

                  Look deep and ask of Me and My Spirit will speak to you.
                  Why have you not sought of Me? Hear My voice and seek Me and I will lead you”.

                  now when i posted this above post i did not know i would be led to larry's Oz site......
                  but this is a warning for those men who twist the truth for gain and glamour and lead the sheep astray - 1 H armstrong and 2 E white.


                  • #10

                    now Allen here is a ? that needs your answer plz

                    Why are you trying to bring others under a yoke that neither you nor the old jewish fathers could not even bear?

                    these ancient men knew the OT far better than yourself 613 laws needed to be learnt and peole's lives judged upon them so because of this horrific detail of life and death decissions needed to be just
                    so Jesus said:
                    Luke 11:16 and Matt 23:4
                    Jesus replied, “And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them.''

                    so Jesus said this comment to these men '' who were experts of the jewish law'' = Allen you are not = Nicodemus was ''an expert too'' and switched lanes.
                    so what is this yoke and burden.

                    Exodus 18:21
                    “And let them judge the people at all seasons; and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge themselves; so shall they make it easier for thee and bear the burden with thee.”
                    even it was said of Moses:

                    Exodus 18:18
                    18 You and these people who come to you will only wear yourselves out.
                    The work is too heavy for you; you cannot handle it alone.”
                    the yoke of judgment and decissions were too hard to bear, the people were all lawbreakers and rebels and died locked into sin and rebellion Messiah said this
                    28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.

                    29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.

                    30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
                    Yeshua offers himself at the time then, and even with us now, to come alongside us and teach us how to judge ourselves as a born again believer and cease from sin and stop death by overcoming it all.

                    Deut 22:10
                    ''Do not plow with an ox and a donkey yoked together''.

                    Meaning that one is not to put a Jew (ox) with a Gentile (donkey) in deciding correct judgment.
                    This is also repeated concerning marriage in not being yoked with an unbeliever.
                    this is the basic rudiments of the 2 yokes......
                    however we also can arise seeking higher golden nuggets of the truth for the truth has many veins and levels of understanding.

                    so the end result is the ''ancients'' who come last, learn how to bear the burden to ''judge'' sin with great justice.
                    they bear the ''burden'' of judgment - using great wisdom.

                    say one was asked to ''pronounced judgment '' on hertbert A.
                    using the divine ancient wisdom from the past as Messiah would judge.
                    one would look at herbert's A. life with a microscope and see he had a ''demonic'' mental problem [ that deserved pity] yet his whole ministry was a man made unbiblical mess that he gained profits from and misused and abused far too many people - therefore his conscious was seared- therefore he deserves very harsh judgment for he abused a child and a millstone would be placed around his neck.

                    so then we come to yourself......................................
                    to be judged as a sincere man yet a man who believed a lie - how would you be judged?
                    now i do realise at this time u see no wrong in your belief yet the bible NT punches hole after hole in this unrighteous teaching - therefore i look at the sentence of an unrighteous teacher [ however sincere]
                    So you see, the Lord knows how to rescue godly people from their trials, even while keeping the wicked under punishment until the day of final judgment.
                    how does Father justly judge the deceived? perhaps it would be well to find out?

                    a born again person judges themselves daily via His holy SPIRIT.
                    their situations are made /allowed by Abba as He seeks 'the survival of the spiritual fitest''. [ gideon's 300 in type]
                    THE FITEST UNDERSTAND dvine judgment for it begins within their ''house'' = meaning in their inner lives first then it radiates out into the world.
                    those who become sane and sound minded judge the unsound minded and the insane with justice.

                    so Spying you judge me as lawless one and a sinner - that is injustice on your behalf for I have the NT on my side as a modern gentile and a law that died 2000yrs ago.
                    if you judge me so harshly then you will judge all manner of things harshly.
                    so why am i now called '' a sinner who keeps on killing Messiah''?
                    when that is a lie.
                    you dont really understand the NT and the finished work of the cross as you make such an unsound decree.
                    But we see JESUS, who was made a little lower than the angels FOR THE SUFFERING OF DEATH, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should TASTE DEATH FOR EVERY MAN" (Hebrews 2:9).
                    ''For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if ONE DIED FOR ALL, then were all dead''' (2nd Corinthians 5:14).
                    Paul says that “Christ our Lamb has been sacrificed” (I Cor. 5:7), connecting Christ’s crucifixion and the Passover lamb (Ex. 12).
                    And in Hebrews 10:11-12, Jesus’ death is compared with a sin offering made by Israel’s priests.possible by removing the barrier of sin that once separated us from God. Paul writes:
                    ''all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
                    God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood.
                    He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished – he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus (Rom. 3:23-26).
                    He died in my place that I may live alongside HIM at His place. amen


                    • #11
                      Living With Messiah!

                      Hi Lucy,

                      Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

                      My, My, My! You wrote:

                      "He died in my place that I may live alongside HIM at His place. amen "

                      If Messiah died in your place, then you still owe the Law a death, don't you, Lucy? If Messiah died in your place, how in all the world did you die with HIM?

                      I simply make this observation for all substitutionalists like yourself, and, who knows, perhaps this may make some sense to you down the road. Paul clearly teaches that no one is saved by the death of Messiah; rather, Paul teaches that we are saved by HIS life:

                      Romans 5:8-10
                      8 But ELOHIM commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Messiah died for us. (Of course, Lucy, you never were a sinner, you were never under the Law, were you? You yourself have always been Ammi, at least, that is what you claim, do you not?)
                      9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (If you have always been righteous, Lucy, if you have always been Ammi, how are you yourself made righteous by HIS Blood? Does not the Law work wrath-Romans 4:15? How are you saved from that wrath if Messiah died in your place?)
                      10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to ELOHIM by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

                      We were reconciled to ELOHIM because the whole world died with Messiah. Our debt of death for our sins has been paid through our death with Messiah, and, therefore, HIS Believers no longer need to die. Of course, this death is to the Law, and you might have the capacity to believe that because of your desire to be free from the Law, but first you must admit that you were a sinner, that you were at one time under the Law (Galatians 2:17-21).

                      Mr. Armstrong and Mrs. White also believed that Messiah Yahushua died in their place, and then they went on to grow older, eventually get sick, and then die. If you yourself have not died with Messiah, what is going to keep you from also growing older, eventually getting sick, and then yourself dying? Poor, poor, Lucy. She did not die with Messiah. How does she hope to live with HIM?:

                      Romans 6:8
                      8 Now if we be dead with Messiah, we believe that we shall also live with him:

                      Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

                      Sincerely, Latuwr
                      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                      • #12
                        ok its war.....ALLEN THE GLOVES ARE OFF =u believe weird issues that r not biblical

                        i have proven to myself from the word JESUS DIED IN MY PLACE FOR MY SINS - HE TOOK MY SINS AWAY

                        i can prove Jesus took my sin from me by the verses below

                        now you show me where HE DID NOT DIE FOR MANKIND NOR TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS....................

                        SHOW ME - as i am eager for the truth as i did my homework and found HE DIED AND TOOK AWAY THE SINS OF THE WORLD

                        now prove your point please------------------------------------------------------------------

                        so again here is my homework.

                        1 Peter 2:21–25

                        For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed. For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.
                        and He Himself bore Lucy's sin in His body on the cross, that Lucy might die to sin and Lucy may live for righteousness

                        Iah 53:6,
                        "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all." That is, "Christ bore our sins in his body."
                        Christ bore Lucy's sin in His body
                        [ as a prophecy]

                        Heb 2 v 9
                        "But we see JESUS, who was made a little lower than the angels FOR THE SUFFERING OF DEATH, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should TASTE DEATH FOR EVERY MAN".
                        'That He by the grace of God should taste death for Lucy''

                        Hebrews 1:3

                        Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
                        when he had by himself purged Lucy's
                        def of purge.
                        : to clear of guilt
                        : to free from moral or ceremonial defilement

                        Lucy is freed from guilt
                        Lucy is freed from defilement.

                        2 Corinthians 5:21
                        “For He hath made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin: that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.”
                        For He was made sin for Lucy, that Lucy may become the righteousness of God

                        Romans 5:8
                        But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, ist died for us.
                        1 Corinthians 15:3
                        For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures.
                        that should do it..................
                        why express another idea when it would be unbiblical.

                        the def of '' a sacrifice''.

                        : to offer as a sacrifice

                        : to suffer loss of, give up, renounce, injure, or destroy especially for an ideal, belief, or end

                        Jesus lost His life as a sacrifice for Lucy- he died for Me.... I should have died, but He gave up His life for me
                        He stood in my death to make me have His life.


                        • #13
                          CONT,,, THERE IS MORE than first believed........................

                          He stood in my death to make me have His life.

                          however I too have to become a living sacrifice and cease from my personal sin.
                          JOHN 15:13
                          "Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one's life for his friends.
                          the hidden truth is found that Messiah took my sin away - so now I am able to learn how to remain freed from sin - cease to sin.
                          but how?

                          i have to re-discover my real man, my inner man called ther real me THE HOLY SPIRIT AWAKENING AND ARISING-

                          this man cannot sin.
                          this is how i too become a LIVING sacrifice

                          the mind of sinning man is removed by Jesus taking the flawed life away on the cross - I was unable to die for my sin only a sinless person could do this.

                          but now i have been given the divine power Christ walked in to cease from all sin, how?
                          by allowing my real man spirit to control my life and Motives as Jesus did.
                          IT WAS JESUS DEATH THAT ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN TO ME - HE SAVED ME FROM MY SIN by teaching my spirit how to mature and cease from sin from my former carnal sin mind.

                          i do believe very few people can allow their inner real man to dominate their lives SO THEY LIVE IN THE SAME PERFECTION AS MESSIAH DID HERE.

                          yes we do have to work out our salvation, but without the death on the cross none could do this.

                          Abba is maturing His believer into the same image as His Son.
                          'their spiritual man is arising and nothing shall stop this work


                          • #14
                            Jesus died to set me freee.....

                            because as a sinner i was not good enough to be a sacrifice - an innocent lamb was needed and i was [unwillingly] birthed into iniquity.
                            i did not choose this but was lowered unwillingly into this position here on earth - to pass the test of '' the survival of the spiritually fitest''

                            Infact wouldn't a person be insane to be a rebel against such a real divine unlimited Father?

                            so He died in my stead.
                            so I now can share His life *in* me -being reconcilled back via His blood and sacrifice.
                            His eternal life - freed me from the law of sin and death - that era had ceased for mankind.

                            so i got to thinking about what era a believer is to dwell in - answer is = LIFE IN THE SPIRIT a new era introduced at Pentecost and how Messiah lived as an overcomer. [ in this pentecost realm]

                            so i deceided to mediate upon what this means. = To live daily inside the holy Spirit quickening and awakening - where Paul said '' I die daily''.
                            well yes our outer man is the realm of the Matrix mind - it dies daily so LIFE IN THE SPIRIT EXPLODES INTO OUR ABUNDANT LIFE.

                            BECAUSE i am into business for 30yrs successfully [thanks only to My Saviour's love] i understand what is ''profit and loss'' and what is good business practices that makes for a great humongeous business where everyone profits from good business management.

                            life in the Spirit - has to be viewed from a ''father's BUSINESS MANAGEMENT''.
                            THE PROFIT TO LIFE'
                            the loss to death and the Matrix style of vain living.

                            the profit is- IF I LIVE IN LIFE IN THE SPIRIT - I RECEIVE NO CONDEMNATION - HENCE i enter fully into His eternal life in the fullness of the Spirit inside me.
                            my loss is - if i continue living a religous life, i will die in sin

                            HE SAYS ''be anxious for nothing, do not fear I am with you '' - if i fear, panic or upsets over anything in my life - I AM DISOBEDIENT TO HIS ADVICE - SO I SUFFER LOSS and remain under sin and comdenation.

                            if i surrender up my insane mind, against all false evidence of the Matrix - look into the face [word] of my Saviour and simply STAND THERE - till faith makes HIS REALITY APPEAR IN ME - THEN I GROW INTO MATURITY and no one ever grows into maturity by any other method.

                            MY REBELLION died on the cross so He makes a way, where there is No other way, He makes a believer OBEY HIM - as His church and living stone and made willing by His workmanship.

                            should anyone tell you of any other way - they lie. remember that.
                            unless u have had the rev. of how to live from above, being face to face with the Saviour all u will receive from mere man is vanity wrapped up in their religious beliefs that kills them.


                            • #15
                              Jesus said I am about My Father;s business

                              Jesus was in the divine BUSINESS AND HE was able to MANAGE this holy BUSINESS with a spirit of excellence.
                              THE DIVINE BUSINESS has to be managed by the excellence of the Spirit of Life.

                              all over this world are milllions of ''religious men'' all with different ideas and beliefs that fail to reproduce the Image of Christ -= for none understand HOW TO MANAGE THE FATHER'S BUSINESS for none have found true life in the Spirit called ''the life''.
                              THEY HAVE LOST THE WAY - and make their own way - hence their ineffective managements.
                              so the real problem not too many want to go t the cross and die to their problems and bad choices and selfhood making their flawed decissions.
                              TO WALK in the Spirit of Life is to return to divine management.
                              to walk in the kingdom of God by His Spirit having our eyes opened into the spiritual realm so we ''see'' in the spirit what is needed to be set free.

                              now many men have their ''pet doctrines'' and their ways to make them saved and their Lord happy - but still they die in sin as never once did they learn HOW TO CONTROL THEIR MATRIX WORLD- yes they only had a Matrix religions THAT DID NOTHING EXCELLENTLY.

                              yes some of these religious men sound good, most sound dreadfull but NONE SOUND ASTONISHING.

                              astonishing and amazing was the adjectives of Messiah ministry.
                              the business of the Father is DELIVERANCE AND RECONCILLIATION.
                              that is what He advertises.
                              ''I am in the excellent Business of divine deliverance and reconcilliation of all men unto Myself''

                              life in the spirit - is our deliverance.
                              Pray to father how to be delivered from your doctrines and into HIS LIFE.