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  • Let's Review AND Establish

    Hi Lucy, let's review what has transpired between us. We both see there is a zeal for what each other believes, but do we both have a zeal based upon knowledge and true understanding? Obviously no, because we have a difference of opinion as to what the Spirit is saying about the Law of Moses. You believe the Spirit is telling you that the Law is a curse and a yoke, and it should be the last thing in the world you would want to follow, because if you did follow it, you would be spitting in the face of Messiah. On the other hand, I believe the Spirit is telling us that we CAN confirm and do ALL that is written in the Book of the Law, through faith. So, why do we have this difference of opinion?

    1Co 11:19 For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.

    These differences between us Lucy is so that the true understanding and knowledge of Elohim's Word will become apparent to us. We also have Paul telling us that those who are bold, can destroy and cast down "imaginations," and the proud and high thinking of those who exalt their teachings and doctrines against the TRUE knowledge of Elohim:

    2Co 10:3-5 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (4) (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through Elohim to the pulling down of strong holds (5) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of Elohim, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Messiah;

    Lucy, you have a "stonghold" in your belief that you do not have to follow what Yahweh commanded Moses, and do it. You have presented a number of reasons and arguments as to why you don't have to follow what Yahweh commanded Moses, and in each and every point, the Spirit has demolished your imaginations. Let's review:

    1. You argued that Romans 14 allows to you esteem one day above another, so as to say that the Fourth commandment was no longer valid, but what does the Spirit say? The Spirit says that Paul was speaking about "doubtful disputations," and it was about esteeming one day above another to FAST on it (The Sabbath Command is NOT a "doubtful disputation," it is One of the Ten). It was also speaking about whether or not one could eat meat, or just vegetables...another "doubtful disputation" because the Law of Moses does not speak expressly concerning fast days (except ONE) and vegetarianism (except for that you were required to eat the Passover). Those "weak" in faith would only eat vegetables.

    2. You argued that Col 2:16-17 did away with the Sabbath, but the Spirit showed you that was not the case. For it is the Body of Messiah who can judge what you eat and drink, and with HOW you observe the Holy Days, New Moon, and the Sabbath, and NOT any individual man. Yeshua gave His Church the authority to bind and loosen, and to remit and retain sin, and this comes from His Spirit. So whatever the Body of Messiah determines concerning these things, it is BINDING, and should be followed.

    3. You argued that the Gentiles would not be required to keep the Sabbath based upon a number of passages about the 1st day of the week, and with what is written in Acts 15. But the Spirit showed you that even in Acts 13:42-44 when the Gentiles were coming to the synagogue to hear the Gospel preached by Paul, they had to wait UNTIL the next Sabbath to hear more. The Spirit was showing you that IF the Believers were assembling on the 1st day of the week, WHY didn't Paul invite the Gentiles to meet with them INSTEAD of making them WAIT until the next Sabbath? And this goes hand in hand with what the Spirit has showed you in Acts 15 concerning how the Gentiles would be keeping the Sabbath to hear more of what Moses had to say:

    Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

    4. You argued (with others you quoted from) that the Jews were no longer bound to keep the Law of Moses, the circumcising of children, or the customs. But the Spirit showed you that when Paul returned to Jerusalem 8 years after the Council of Acts 15, James and the elders had Paul enter into the rites of purification to PROVE that Paul was not teaching Jews to forsake Moses, the circumcising of children, or the customs. The Spirit even brought to your attention that James stated, "Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law."

    5. You argued that the Law is a curse and a burden/yoke that no one can keep. But the Spirit taught you that the CURSE and BURDEN is your inability to confirm and DO all that is written in the Book of the Law. The Spirit spoke to you about the Grace which is given EVERY sinner. This Grace IS the Free Gift of Righteousness. The Law of Moses IS Elohim's Righteousness, and EVERY sinner who confesses their sin and BELIEVES through FAITH that Yeshua is THEIR sin offering, begins their walk in CONFIRMING and DOING ALL that is written in the Book of the Law, your RIGHTEOUSNESS (Deu 6:25). Your sin is TURNED INTO a DOING of the Law, and you know that the Spirit has told you that "not the hearers of the law are RIGHTEOUS before Elohim, but the DOERS of the Law are RIGHTEOUS."

    6. You argued that the Abomination of Desolation is....man made RELIGION of death, but the Spirit has convincingly shown you that the Abomination of Desolation is when The Righteous One was lifted up on the Cross in this PRESENT AGE (the Holy Place), and made to stand where He ought not (in death on the Cross), and a great DESOLATION occurred in that ALL died when He died (2 Cor 5:14). Then you had no argument for why Messiah wanted you to pray your flight was not on the Sabbath, but the Spirit has spoken to you in that you should FLEE from sin (to the Mountains of Righteousness), and DO this BEFORE Yeshua RETURNS on the Day He is Lord of, the Sabbath, so that you will be blessed.

    7. You argued that the Law of Moses was destroyed with the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 ad, but the Spirit has also spoken to you with the words concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by Babylon hundreds of years eariler, and the Law of Moses was not destroyed with that destruction. The Spirit has taught that the Law of Moses is growing older and will soon vanish away, sort of like what Yeshua spoke when He said Heaven and Earth would pass BEFORE the least stroke of a pen would pass from the Law of Moses.

    Do you see Lucy? Point, by point, by point the Spirit is speaking to you and you continue to turn a deaf ear to It. Sort of reminds me of this Scripture in which the Spirit is speaking expressly about those like you:

    Pro 28:9 He that turneth away his/her ear from hearing the law, even his/her prayer shall be abomination.

    So Lucy, why don't you become like Paul and ALLOW your FAITH to ESTABLISH the Law of Moses?

    Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Elohim forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Come on Lucy, don't close your ear to the hearing of the Law, but rather, let your FAITH ESTABLISH the Law so that we can extend to each other the Right Hand of fellowship. ImAHebrew
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols
    (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  • #2
    NO IAH - you have a religious inspired man made opinion based upon a lie of man.

    and this lie you believe [ law keeping in parts to the jew only] has stopped you from rightly dividing the truth from fiction.


    i believe the bible instructions given to the head Apostle Peter and his brethren BY the holy Spirit.
    acts 15 -
    they had a problem then solved - end of story.

    ''certain men caused this problem'' - u r classed as ''certain men''

    IAH - u have many truth-full strikes against you for anyone to believe your religious renderings or- theories that the ''devil in man'' has connived to seduce others by a lie to murder the victim with false belief.

    shall i list THOSE strikes against you so others see I DONT LIE NOR AM A FALSE WITNESS against u.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    # strike 1 - WHY?
    ARE WE TO BELIEVE an owner of a forum who for many years has titled his forum [as its header] LO AMMI - meaning - ''NOT MY PEOPLE''
    on the other hand - Father calls His CHURCH - ''his people.''[HIS PEOPLE MADE WILLING'']


    # strike 2 - why? I dont believe your twisted version of scriptures.
    are we to believe your theory [now parroted from an old crow in the 1800's who copied her religion from others- but posed it as ''her revelation'' when she ''heard from an angel'' [warning bells - wrong] ummm.
    why are we to believe a woman who heard her ''revelations from an angel''?
    ummmmm,

    # strike 3 - WHY? I DONT BELIEVE you IAH
    History proves the law to the jew was fully wiped out in 70ad by Father himself thru HIS INSTRUMENT-
    Titus who said '' I have never seen a nation SO DESERTED BY THEIR GOD.

    #strike 4 - why? am i to believe you when SABBATHGATE 1888
    is a proven lie.

    #strike 5 why? am i to believe you IAH when there are .....
    88 questions SABBATHERIANS [HATE TO ANSWER]
    UMMMM for the list please review this site.
    http://www.bible.ca/7-sabbath-questions.htm
    scriptural evidence against your religious ''killer'' beliefs.


    #6 strike - now the proof of the OT lawkeeper and their choices.
    * why did Moses die,
    * why did the HEAD lawkeeper to the jew die? WHY DIDN'T MOSES CHOOSE LIFE?
    * why didn't the law to the jew forgive his mistake and redeem HIM into salvation.
    * why is there only 2 [ head count] of those men [of the OT] from whole nation choose Life -
    * why are THE CAPTIVES TO THE LAW themselves so lawless God divorced them, sent them as slaves to other nations and killed them off.
    * why is the law ''thou shalt not kill'' so outstanding a sin that even king David was termed '' a man with blood on his hands''? they loved their wars and their killing sprees. NOT TOO MANY ''LIFE CHOICES'' THERE.

    MESSIAH CAME TO SET THOSE CAPTIVES TO THE LAW - FREE.
    THE odds of attaining to life - were almost non existent.
    2 out from how many millions in 1500yrs?
    - may i ask IAH '' are u the full deck of cards''? - forgoodness sakes.[when does ''stupid'' cease and divine common sense prevail]?
    60% of the population is below average intelligence u know.
    why would anyone be interesting in ''works of the jew'' when the odds of success WHERE SO TERRIBLE.

    * JESUS came TO FREE THE ''WORKERS OF THE LAW '' FREE from their yoke - Peter said '' it was too much to bear'' acts 15 - dont u think Peter would know al about this yoke he used to be under ?
    IF Jesus set the ''captives to the law free'' why do you wish to RECAPTIVATE them back to sin and death?
    thanks IAH.
    you want to replace the yoke that was too much to bear BACK ON THE NECK OF BELIEVERS.
    I DONT WANT THE YOKE why? - PETER SAID WAS TOO HARD TO BEAR.
    YOU CAN HAVE YOUR faux jew YOKE AND BEAR IT - NOT ME.

    i HAVE MESSIAH'S ''YOKE'' upon me. Grace does this.


    you have the self proclaimed YOKE OF THE LAW TO THE JEW [WHEN YOU ARE NOT A JEW] + YOU HAVE THE HARDNESS OF THE LAW - THAT IS SIN AND DEATH. you believe the verdict of a woman who ''heard from an angel''

    h.e.l.l.oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo there.

    I HAVE THE YOKE OF MY SAVIOUR [math 11 - v 28-29-30] this is the REALITY I ADORE.
    2 yokes we can have - thru ignorance you have been persuaded by a total liar to take the yoke to the jew and not the Saviour.

    perhaps a study and some true repentance to the divine helper Messiah whose yoke found in Math 11 v 28-29-30 would be in order IAH



    ----------------------------------------
    PETER SAID THE ''YOKE OF THE LAW'' WAS MORE THAN THEY CAN BEAR
    MESSIAH SAID ''TAKE MY YOKE''

    see why u really are a ''lo ammi'' and you cannot hide it.
    perhaps IAH you should set aside time to study FATHER'S THOUGHTS............THEY SEEM AGAINST YOUR BELIEF - HEY.

    Isa 1:13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; [it is] iniquity, even the solemn meeting.


    Isa 1:14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them].
    WHERE IS SPYING - the new moon watcher.


    the ''sabbath?'' came from a ''revelaton of an angel'' and there are 88 reasons why a believer will never ''touch'' the law to the jew, especially just keeping 1 part of their law - the sabbath.
    The whole law to the jew was to be kept.

    THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS SHOWN - PETER SAID IT WAS ''A YOKE TO HARD TO BEAR''
    THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS SHOWN - MY YOKE IS MY SAVIOUS EVERLASTING HELP AND MY HIDING PLACE IN HIM.

    THE LAW MADE CAPTIVES.
    MY SAVIOUR MAKES FREED MEN - OF WHOM I AM ONE, AS A WORK IN PROGRESS.

    Comment


    • #3
      Point after Point after Point?

      Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
      No answers, just the same old accusations!
      Hi Lucy, are you incapable of addressing the specific points that the Holy Spirit made with you? How does your faith ESTABLISH the Law of Moses? Come on Lucy, Yeshua wants you to learn how to be a Warrior for Him, and carry His YOKE. ImAHebrew
      Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

      Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
      Abstain from meats offered to idols
      (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
      So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

      Comment


      • #4
        ummm now for the next ?

        Seventh-Day Adventism's Ellen G. White and Freemasonry

        Photo to Right: Founder of 7th Day Adventism, Ellen G. White's Tomb Stone.
        Notice the Illuminati symbol. Obelisks represent Freemasonry, clearly evidenced by the Washington Monument. George Washington was a 33rd Degree Freemason.

        Without prophetess Ellen G. White (November 26, 1827 — July 16, 1915) there would be no Seventh-day Adventist [SDA] Church; however, SDAs seek to avoid the issue because Ellen G. White’s life was saturated with occultism, damnable heresies and bizarre experiences.
        SDAs revere White’s writings as being equally inspired with the Bible.

        Interestingly, Charles Taze Russell (founder of the Jehovah’s Witnesses), Ron Hubbard (founder of Scientology), and Joseph Smith (founder of the Mormon religion) were all 33rd Degree Freemasons.

        Mary Baker Eddy, the founder of Christian Science, was an associate of 33rd Degree Freemason Henry Steele Olcott who founded the Satan worshipping cult called the "Theosophical Society" with evil female Freemason, mother of the New Age Movement and Hitler's spiritual guide, Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.

        Satan is the god of this sinful world (2nd Corinthians 4:4) and operates through the occult to perform his works of darkness. 2nd Corinthians 11:13,14 informs us that Satan transforms himself into an angel of light to deceive people, and his sinister ministers are transformed into ministers of righteousness.

        Should it be surprising then that the Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Scientologists, Christian Scientists, Seventh-day Adventists, and other religions are all OF THE DEVIL.

        There is a visible, obvious, verifiable occult connection between nearly all major religions today, especially with Freemasonry.
        http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False...tist/liars.htm
        the ? now ask IS

        '' is this list not equivelant to LO AMMI - NOT MY PEOPLE? iah
        BEING under the ''banner'' of ''not my people'' are u a Mason and an occultist inadvertently or for real?
        because of your anti-bible beliefs?
        perhaps i shall post this sentence again so you are not confused.
        Should it be surprising then that the Catholics, Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Scientologists, Christian Scientists, Seventh-day Adventists, and other religions are all OF THE DEVIL.

        by their fruits ye shall know them,
        following quote is from the SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH MANUAL...



        “Baptismal vow—Candidates for baptism or those being received into fellowship by profession of faith shall affirm their acceptance of the doctrinal beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in the presence of the church or other properly appointed body. The minister or elder should address the following questions to the candidate(s)…



        …Do you accept and believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy? …”



        SOURCE: SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST CHURCH MANUAL, pgs. 30,31; ISBN 0-8280-1076-5; Revised 1995, 15th Edition; Review and Herald Publishing Association, Hagerstown, Maryland 21740


        why are these crappy palaces of shame ''always is the TRUE CHURCH''?
        a person joining the SDA Church MUST (without exception) believe that “the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy.” This means that all other religions, including Baptist and Presbyterian, are viewed as being of the Devil by SDAs. SDAs arrogantly, and sinfully, teach that their organization is the only True Church, and that everyone else is following the Devil.


        ROTFL - THEY ARE ALL OF THE DEVIL for none reproduce the Image of Christ in anyone for 2000yrs.
        ROTFL- and why did the LAW GIVER OF ALL LAW KEEPERS die and did not RECEIVE LIFE [poor Moses] imagine that. NO GRACE WAS EXTENDED TO MOSES over his faux pas.

        IAH - u have No chance if Moses lost out - so do you.
        you cannot flip the finger at the Blood and the cross.
        suggestion - give up being a Lo ammi.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
          suggestion - give up being a Lo ammi.
          Hi Lucy, do you belong to the One True Church? What do you call the name of your Church? ImAHebrew
          Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

          Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
          Abstain from meats offered to idols
          (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
          So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

          Comment


          • #6
            heheh

            give us a break IAH.
            -------------------------------

            why didnt the law giver himself Moses - choose life.?
            HE PREACHED IT WROTE IT AND THEN DIES HIMSELF -

            if i have to keep the law to the jew to ''be saved and not Lawless Lucy'' you have to tell me the truth.
            [if possible] WHY DID MOSES NOT CHOOSE LIFE AND BLESSING.

            why didnt the law to the jew save Moses?
            why did Moses not choose life? what stopped him and why did d.i.s.o.b.e.d.i.e.n.c.e kill him?
            Moses had the whole wilderness experience together BUT for 1 mistake.

            i do hope IAH you dont make the same mistake as Moses.
            It would also appear your 'idol' ellen white made a mistake too and died.

            why do you FOLLOW PEOPLE WHO DIED?


            why not follow Messiah and have true LIFE.
            I DO.

            'ps added
            iah - I GOT SOME NEWS....................
            A BIG ANNOUNCEMENT FOR U............
            THE TRUE CHURCH IS HIS UNDYING CHURCH HE makes.
            why is the true church *undying*?
            because Yeshua is the high priest of endless life, OR an undying priesthood installed for over 2000yrs - his church is undying as He is undying - THEREFORE-His church is the same kind as Their New High Priest.
            now that is the true church.


            I do hope u get an invite IAH - Plz leave behind the masonic devils teachings hey AND GIVE UP THE DRUGGY HABIT OF '' I NEED THE SABBATH TO SAVE ME'' crapola.
            people who do this die.
            their mere religious man could not survive and so got ''murdered by the murderer from the beginning''.
            Do you know how ''you shall be murdered'' IAH?
            something to wonder hey?
            gosh how you are in a pickle IAH
            #1 - you have to watch out for the abomination on the sabbath so u can fleee to an unknown mountain and
            #2- watch out for your ''murderer'' - wham - how awefull.
            personally i gave up reading murder stories.
            ummm
            Its rather weird - as murder mysteries are the MOST POPULAR READING BOOKS in the world.
            most love a good murder mystery never realising their future is to be ''killed'' by the murderer-from-the-beginning.



            i do feel you dont do enough research and just follow anyone who ''chats u up'' and u listen then swallow their opinions.
            U know something i have to say '' if you were the last man on earth i would never believe what u preach- why? you teach like mere laodicean man and NOT LIKE THE SAVIOUR.
            People like you have preached like you for hundreds of years - all dead.
            not a great testimony for law keeping of moses to the jew.

            avoid it like the plague =warning.,

            why not find the true church IAH. do yourself a favour.
            Last edited by LucySmith; 12-05-2011, 04:00 PM. Reason: PS ADDED big announcement.

            Comment


            • #7
              Body of Believers?

              Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
              give us a break IAH.
              why didnt the law to the jew save Moses?
              why not find the true church IAH. do yourself a favour.
              Hi Lucy, I'm always giving you a break. If I wasn't giving you a break, I would be treating you much differently. As fas as Moses being saved and not dying, I will answer you explicitly if you can answer why the Obedient, Faithful, and Friend of Elohim died. Oh, and about the True Church, why do you think I was asking you to tell me about YOUR church, and it's name. So many people have come along declaring THEY have the truth and THEIR understanding is right, but I know you don't believe that about yourself, do you, and that is why you don't BELONG to a Body of Believers that has a Name? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
              Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

              Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
              Abstain from meats offered to idols
              (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
              So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

              Comment


              • #8
                and U do Mr disobedient law non jewish law keeper

                hehehehthat really is gross deception.

                the NT warns against people who mix law with grace and go off into some weird gnostic super spirituality.............................
                certain little men living today are our warning from in acts 15


                hey law man - how is your law to the jew keeping u in the ''body of Christ''.
                that is an oxymoron u know.
                the law and Christ are 2 different things like cows and horses.


                the body of Christ is not A MIXTURE OF JEWISH CAPTIVES under the law of moses and gentiles under the law of grace,
                ''certain men'' may well think it so, but not the Messiah.

                Moses died from disobedience - the OT tells us this - the law won and life left Moses.

                We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
                no matter how u try to spin Lo ammi person- here is the truth.
                Galatians 5:18
                But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
                hands up who understand plain speaking in the verse?
                how can anyone twist this to mean something else?
                does this verse mean - ''forget the spirit and go back to the law Moses gave only to the ancient jew''.
                is this the true meaning?

                Romans 6:14
                ''For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace''.
                hands up who understand this verse?
                does it say ' o no that's not true- go back all of you and get in under the 613 laws to the jew''
                is this right?

                roms 8 v 14
                ''because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God''
                did you read this?
                '' those who keep some parts of the jewish law and mix it with grace as sons of God''
                you read that?
                yes/no/maybe?.
                speak up i cannot hear you.
                does the verse say '' only those who mix grace and the law are sons of God''

                Galatians 3:26
                ''You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus''
                well does it say ''ye are the sons of God thru the legally approved in part keeping some parts of the 613 jewish law of moses''
                yes..... no.... maybe?
                is this hard to grasp.
                do we need to be some rocket scientist to understand these verses?
                tell me.

                1 Timothy 1:9
                ''We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers,
                is it true
                the law to the jew was not made for the righteous?
                the law to the jew was made for lawbreakers
                the law to the jew was made for rebels ungodly sinfilled and unholy
                so if you place yourself BACK UNDER SOME PARTS of the law to the jew only
                you then become legally classed as

                the unrighteous
                the lawbreaker
                the rebel
                the unholy
                the ungodly
                and the sinfull

                here is the unholy list of the preachin' of what spying and IAH want us to be.....
                is this not the identity of a lo ammi? [ ''NOT MY PEOPLE'']
                why would u preach
                rebellion
                unholiness
                sinfillness
                IF YOU WERE IN - THE BODY OF CHRIST?

                UMMM, how do u explain this?

                is their forum well named, for it is the standard of the owners?
                yes/no/maybe?

                now let us understand - the law was not spiritual by works and as for Moses he- sinned in the natural way.
                people under the law to the jew were under works.
                the new creation is legally under the spirit of life in Christ Jesus.

                the OT Lord said ''choose Life'' - that was the goal for all to achieve = LIFE
                BUT BY 1 SIN MOSES forfeited his life and blessing of crossing onto the soil of the promised land
                .
                Moses even went to God of the OT to beg his forgiveness for what he had done, and asked for permission to enter into the Promised Land.
                NO was the answer.
                why?
                BECAUSE MOSES HAD A RESPONSIBILITY before the People and He did not DO AS GOD TOLD him.

                By hitting the rock 2 xs he was crucifying Messiah again.

                IAH - i have a responsibility before God and man to seek out truth, join dots to the truth, find nuggests of truth and tell of the truth of His word.

                you dont do this - your'e lo ammi and most readers would see how you veer off the word and into your own personal belief that is man made.
                You tell us all some weird made up story of how we can pick and choose some parts of the jewish law -even when we are not jews- because unless we keep saturdays as a food feast and a wine feast = we are not holy nor in the body of christ - YOU SAID - but not the word said.

                Iah said - so we all gotta do as IAH said.

                well mere man - i dont believe you for MY Saviour said this....
                Emmanuel begins a series of sayings 6 times
                '“you have heard it said by them of old time...'”
                followed by,
                “but I say unto you”
                In every case, the “but I say unto you”
                is a dramatic change from "the law" which Christ quotes every time He says “you have heard it said by them of old time
                a dramatic change away from the law to the jews.
                --------------------------------------------------------------

                at Pentecost the SPIRIT BROUGHT LIFE, FORGIVENESS GRACE MERCY AND TRUE TEACHING.
                pentecost opened the door into the spirit of life and closed the door to the law of moses to the jew- as there cannot be 2 laws in place at the one time.
                the dying levi priesthood left the building in 70ad after a probation settling in transitional peroid to get believers used to the change - after 70 ad all believers were settled into the body of Christ - the lawkeepers died.
                thats the whole counsel of grace verse law to the jew of the NT

                so now allow me to join some dots.

                there cannot be 2 high priests at the same time
                #1 - from dying levi HIGH PRIEST
                #2 - from the undying HIGH PRIEST Yeshua.

                this is were you fall to bits IAH - for never is there 2 systems working togther SIDE BY SIDE.
                the law to the jew with its levi dying priesthood all died in 70ad - none left.

                the life in the spirit High Priesthood an UNDYING PRIESTHOOD under Yeshua the UNDYING still in power forever and a day.

                you try to ''spiritualise'' and then mix a dying group with an UNDYING SAVIOUR THE KING OF KINGS.
                sorry that is 1 big fat lie.








                .
                Last edited by LucySmith; 12-06-2011, 01:55 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Lucy, you make a very big issue in the fact that Moses died, so I will ask you again, why did the Obedient, Faithful, and Friend of Elohim die...why did Faithful Abraham die? Blessings in the Name, ImAHebrew
                  Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                  Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                  Abstain from meats offered to idols
                  (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                  So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
                    Hi Lucy, you make a very big issue in the fact that Moses died, so I will ask you again, why did the Obedient, Faithful, and Friend of Elohim die...why did Faithful Abraham die? Blessings in the Name, ImAHebrew
                    ********************************
                    IAH rather than always argue-ing with me - why not look it up for yourself.
                    Moses was wonderfull yes sir - why not find out why he did not live and choose life - and why he did die.

                    if i go carnalminded - he was ripped off.
                    if i remain spiritual - only then do i understand.

                    the lawgiver himself died. HE WROTE THE LAW AND DIED BY THE LAW UNABLE TO KEEP THE LAW AND CHOSE LIFE.
                    the law was unable to save .
                    ROMS 8 V 3
                    For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,
                    you want us all to go back to the UNSAVED REALM OF THE LAW TO THE JEW, [when we are gentiles anyway] to BE SAVED.
                    MOSES sinned moses died.

                    DUH???
                    hang on please reconsider you religious choice ok.

                    For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man,

                    why didnt Enoch die?
                    why didnt Elijah die?
                    why is there NO record of Caleb's death
                    why is there NO record of the 3 men death [daniels friend's] in the firey furnace.

                    it seems there are ''conditions'' to be met not to die.


                    have u made an ''agreement with death'' IAH - remember it is an enemy not a friend?
                    Messiah came to set men free from their ''agreement with death and their appointment with death''.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
                      ********************************
                      IAH rather than always argue-ing with me - why not look it up for yourself.
                      Hi Lucy, why does the pot always call the kettle black? I told you I would explain "explicitly" why Moses died (you have been asking me to explain why Moses died for I don't know how long), IF you would tell my WHY Abraham died. I've already looked it up for myself, but I want YOU to explain why Abraham died. You make such a big deal about Moses dying as PROOF that Yahweh's Law is abominable...there's no life at ALL in the Law, ONLY death, and Moses dying proves your assumptions. So I just want YOU to explain if your logic can hold the same reasoning with Abraham's death. Abraham was FAITHFUL, and RIGHTEOUS through his FAITH, yet he died also, so does that mean that the FAITH of Abraham is abominable also? You need to start using proper logic Lucy and judge RIGHTEOUSLY, according to the Law of Elohim, the Law He gave to Moses. ImAHebrew
                      Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                      Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                      Abstain from meats offered to idols
                      (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                      So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        well the OT is clear here my dear.

                        ''they made a covenant with death''.
                        despite all they went thru - death ruled so we are told.
                        They were to choose life under the law to the jew but did not. there was a HICK UP along the way.

                        Lazarus was a friend of Messiah's too and he died.
                        But He lives today. Not too many shall believe this ofcourse.

                        it is sin that kills and DEATH RULED from adam to Moses.
                        ''Still, everyone died-from the time of Adam to the time of Moses-even those who did not disobey an explicit commandment of God, as Adam did. Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come''.
                        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned''.
                        Romans 5:21
                        so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
                        see why i brag about Grace IAH and all of its benefits to a believer?

                        For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
                        the condition is to BE IN CHRIST.
                        to learn how to become enchristed - found in christ [john 15]
                        LIFE IS ONLY IN CHRIST.
                        CHRIST is not Jesus 2nd name but a condition of being in the powerhouse anointed realm.
                        ''If a man keep My saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51
                        how do you get there?
                        truth seekers find out.
                        i shall let u into a wee secret IAH ...........

                        Father is a great Math ManGod- so if we look at this verse we see 2 numbers 8 and 51
                        in bible numerics #8 is new life - the power of the resurrection.
                        in bible numerics # 51 - is revelations.
                        therefore when it says '' If a man keep My saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51
                        but you have to have *the revelations* that makes this possible. These wee bits of info are for truth seekersso they join the dots.

                        now the religious sort to Kill Messiah over some of these types of statements - this was one of them.
                        and ofcourse 2000yrs of apostate church failure has robbed these words of their power.
                        the religious carnal mind thinks =
                        “He could not have meant physical death because, after all, everybody dies” after all the NT tells us ''it is appointed once for man to die.''
                        BTW
                        did u know IAH this IS A misquoted verse a mistake has been made for it should read....
                        Once- it was appointed FOR MAN TO DIE.

                        WHAT a difference the placing of a word makes.
                        But ye have to seek for these nuggets of truth.
                        ummm
                        to choose LIFE one has to become A LIFE Being [TO BE LIFE ] and to break their covenant with death and to repent and be born again of incorruptable seed [christ] placed inside - to allow our spiritual man to ascend into a spiritual dimension of reality here on earth - to overcome all wilderness experiences called tests of faith and fiery trials by using the LIFE OF THE SPIRIT not the power of death [ the carnal mind of flesh] to solve our problems.

                        being a friend of God is goOd but BEING FOUND IN CHRIST - a FAR better thing.
                        I WANT YOU AND ALLEN to give up your works and trying to save yourselves by clinging to the ancient past of the jew. A law that killed most people because they could not abide in 613 of them - neither can u 2.
                        you have to understand what the law to the jew could not do very successfully Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus Christ was manifested to abolish death and to bring life and immortality to light.

                        now not 1 piece of law to the jew to save us all is ever mentioned in HOW TO ABOLISH DEATH AND HOW TO BRING IMMORTALITY TO LIGHT.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
                          Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come
                          Hi Lucy, I could be wrong, but I don't think you answered my question about why Abraham died. Now you may have and just failed to mention his name in your answer, but if you could, would you explain why Abraham died. Was Abraham's death caused by something different than Moses' death?

                          Also, you quote Romans 5 and since you seem to think you understand Paul, what did Paul mean when he said:

                          "Now Adam is a symbol, a representation of Christ, who was yet to come."

                          What do you think Paul meant when he said Adam was a "type" or symbol-a representation of Christ? Please explain what he meant? ImAHebrew
                          Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                          Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                          Abstain from meats offered to idols
                          (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                          So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            no

                            it is clear enough IAH
                            a little child would understand

                            why not learn how to BE life IAH
                            it is very good

                            ps remember when u got married to your lovely girl.... ''you signed away till death do us part'' = cancel it out repent of the death wish'' - dont make a covenant with death

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes

                              Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
                              it is clear enough IAH
                              a little child would understand

                              why not learn how to BE life IAH
                              it is very good

                              ps remember when u got married to your lovely girl.... ''you signed away till death do us part'' = cancel it out repent of the death wish'' - dont make a covenant with death
                              Hi Lucy, you see, I sort of think differently than how you do. When I see someone struggling to understand the details of the Scriptures, I make efforts to give them an explanation that would help them "see." I know you are not very interested into digging into the details of what the Scriptures have to say, that you like to use more or less how you feel in your heart as your guide, and that's good at times, but to really help others to overcome, it takes explaining the Scriptures in detail. So that is why I am willing to help you understand Paul here.

                              When Paul states that Adam is a "type" of Yeshua (the One coming), he clearly states HOW Adam was a type in the next sentence of the following verse (Rom 12:15), but the translators couldn't grasp it so they manipulated the words around just a little so that everyone would be confused. Here are a number of different versions of the 1st sentence that follows Paul saying that Adam was a "type" of the One coming:

                              (CEV) But the gift that God was kind enough to give was very different from Adam's sin.
                              (ESV) But the free gift is not like the trespass.
                              (LEB) [But the gift is not like the trespass],
                              (LITV) But the free gift is not also like the deviation.
                              (MKJV) but the free gift shall not be also like the offense.
                              (NAS77) But the free gift is not like the transgression.
                              (NASB) But the free gift is not like the transgression.
                              (The Scriptures 1998+) But the favourable gift is not like the trespass.
                              (KJV) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.

                              Do you see what all these translations are trying to say? Paul states that Adam is a "type" of Yeshua, and then in the next sentence they all start trying to say how different they are. "The gift is not like the offense" or trespass. That is not at all what Paul was saying. Here is the PROPER translation of what Paul said:

                              (Truthful Translation) "But not with respect to the offense, rather the free gift."

                              Adam is a "type" of the One coming, NOT with respect to the offense, RATHER the free gift. They BOTH gave a free gift to mankind. Adam's gift was sin and death, Yeshua's gift is righteousness and life, so you can't look at their simularity when you look at the offense (Adam sinned and Yeshua didn't). It is only when you compare them to giving a free gift does the "type" or simularity occur. And then, Adam's gift was the result of just ONE offense, but Yeshua's gift was the result of MANY offenses, UNTO justification (end of v16) . It just took ONE sin for Adam's gift to be given, but it took MANY sinning to produce Yeshua's free gift. (All of mankind sinning did place Yeshua on the Cross thus allowing the free gift of righteousness to be given--sinners were fulfilling the JUST requirement of the Law by sacrificing Yeshua, their OFFERING, which gave them the FREE GIFT of RIGHTEOUSNESS).

                              Lucy, hopefully this explanation will help you the next time someone asks you to explain how Adam is a "type" of the One coming. ImAHebrew
                              Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                              Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                              Abstain from meats offered to idols
                              (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                              So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                              Comment

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