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here is IAH's belief..........................so i am supposed to believed this

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  • here is IAH's belief..........................so i am supposed to believed this

    from IAH
    ''Lucy, it is very clear in the Scriptures, the shedding of innocent blood ONLY brings condemnation and judgment, not forgiveness or justification.

    So you really need to explain why your views of shedding innocent blood differ so much from what the Word of Elohim says''. ImAHebrew




    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    hang on.... is my eyes seeing this right?
    do i need glasses?


    ''Lucy, it is very clear in the Scriptures, the shedding of innocent blood ONLY brings condemnation and judgment, not forgiveness or justification.

    hang on I'll check what the NT says.....
    ''Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him''!
    (Rom 5:9)

    Ephesians 1:7
    ''In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace''.

    Colossians 1:14
    ''In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:''

    ''But God demonstrates his own love for us in this:
    While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
    Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! Romans 5:8–9:

    is a holy sample from the NT.
    yes I did see this right - just checking.

    justified.
    "to make righteous, to acquit from sin, to hold guiltless."
    so, as i apply the blood of the Lamb - i overcome to be acquitted and guiltess

    yes sireee. thats how it works



    Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
    To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father--to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

    (Rev 1:5-6 NIV)

    2 Corinthians 5:21
    Apostle Paul says,
    "God made him [Jesus] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God" (NIV).

    thank you Father for the truth.
    see I believe the NT............................................................

    so now to the crux

    why is IAH's belief needed, when scripture proves him totally incorrect - why am i to believe a teaching from armstrong-ism that i have to keep some laws but not all, and believe his twisted views on salvation.?

    ummmm?
    how does this stop my death?
    =========================================================

    now Allen, it seems you too share IAH's view.
    yes/no/maybe

    shall we look again at his views.


    ''Lucy, it is very clear in the Scriptures, the shedding of innocent blood ONLY brings condemnation and judgment, not forgiveness or justification.

    THIS IS ARMSTRONGISM..... the twisting of NT verses.

    now Allen the point is both of you are wrong, sincerely wrong- because LIVING LIFE IN THE SPIRIT - MEANING, BEING TRAINED UP BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, TO OVERCOME THE CARNAL NATURE AS Emmanuel did - then there is NO condemnation.

    you see Allen,
    death reigns - till Christ appears, the moment the incorruptable seed appears - LIFE APPEARS.
    WHEN LIFE APPEARS IN A PERSON - DEATH is ceasing to rule.
    I live in this revelation - the blessing of life eternal.
    not only by faith do i walk this walk BUT BECAUSE I HEARD IN NO MISTAKEN MANNER.
    THEREFORE divine FAITH IS ESTABLISHED IN ME over this whole matter.

    SO none of this life realm contains any parts of the law of Moses, for this law did not save.

    But you want to bring me back under the law of moses by keeping some laws but not all 613 of them.
    I know this is NOT right.

    I also know, that merely quoting scriptures and being ''passive in faith as a blind acceptance'' like church pews do - is not the answer either.

    Yes, they know of the resurrection - BUT FAIL TO LIVE IN it roday AND UNDERSTAND ITS POWER.

    PAUL said '' I long to know the POWER of His resurrection''[phil 3]
    this is for Believer's and their walk into the out resurrection from the dead.

    meaning -the first fruit company - Father plans for His Believer the temple not made with hands- Zion the city of God.

    THE POWER of the resurrection has nothing to do with Moses and law keeping and everything to do with having the ability to withstand the enemy 'death' or put another way = THE DIVINE ABILITY TO OVERCOME DEATH BY THE POWER OF LIFE OF CHRIST.

    or

    the divine ability to cease using the flesh mind that kills us.
    THIS IS HOW A BELIEVER OVERCOMES death and few find its revelation.

    pleassssssssssssssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
    - DONT TELL ME about your belief and law keeping it is a hoax from a madman.

    true life immortal has nothing to do with lawkeeping and the teachings of armstrong - to overcome death - a believer resists it
    how?
    ''resist the devil'' and he shall flee - the ''murderer-from-the-beginning'' needs to be resisted, when resisted he flees hence his murdering intentions cease.

    the truth is HOW TO MAKE THE DEVIL FLEE BY RESISTING?
    here is what u need to concentrate upon Allen, -by keeping your 4 self induced laws of Moses AND thinking it is making you holy is NOT LEARNING TO RESIST THE DEVIL.
    IT IS NULLIFYING GRACE

    SO why would a man who had nullified Grace, [BLASPHEMED THE HOLY SPIRIT acts 15 ] and a sincere person in their own right - be able to teach about LIFE.?

    you cheeky devil.

    go read ''THERE IS THEREFORE NO COMDENATION FOR THOSE WHO ARE IN [john 15] CHRIST JESUS= FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT IS LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS has set me free from the law of sin and death [law of moses]
    allen
    BE SET FREE.
    DONT ALLOW a proven false teacher to destroy.

  • #2
    now for some LIFE UNDERSTANDING Allen......

    a believer is to WAGE WAR on death by ''putting it off and putting on the immortal life''.
    immortal life is the nature of Abba,

    these actions are done here and now and ''today as WE HEAR HIS VOICE'' saying ''walk this way''.
    The church has never reproduced anyone in the likeness of My Saviour, neither did armstrong as he destroyed others by his false concepts.

    to put off mortal - is an action to be taken today - and is knowing how to refuse the destroying tactics of the carnal minded thoughts that OPPOSE GOD and cause sin and destructions. This is because the carnal mind dwells in vanity and not the Kingdom of God.

    a Believer is trained up to be loosed from this mindset as THE MASTER HAS NEED OF THEM.
    they are His living sacrifices
    they are His church not made with hands.

    they are to resist death by understanding how to dwell in eternal life.

    the life, in His incorruptable seed - grows and matures into the fullness of Spirit.
    Messiah does the infilling and this infilling ONLY HAPPENS after each test/trial has been passed and some weakness [spot] is removed.
    ITS LIKE A DIVINE DRY CLEANING - go in dirty get washed come out clean,

    each weakness has to be DEALT WITH and a believer goes round the mountain, till that spot has been overcome.

    now unless you know this dry cleaning programme there is NO way you will ever get the fullness of Spirit to overcome death - for death is a mind that opposes God.
    ie
    Armstrongism opposes God - so many people have written on this horrific man and his diabolical methods and mixed up theories of an utter apostate.

    The battle is FOR LIFE.
    Satan wages war on LIFERS.
    they give him headaches as he knows his days are numbered.

    now we come to an interesting fact................
    it is Emmanuel WHO NOW HOLDS THE KEY OF DEATH not the devil.
    so it is HIS DECISSION - not the devils.


    get a relationship going and pray - so He will respond with “If you resist death, I will let you conquer it.”
    “Saviour, because of Your conquest over death, I now resist all its onslaughts.
    Please Saviour I am determined to conquer death immediately but in Your saving strength.
    Saviour, make me victorious just like You Please.”
    LAY HOLD of His Promises.
    LAY HOLD of His plans over our life.

    not too many do this.
    but some do. I do.

    Comment


    • #3
      Allen... how about we understand the impossible to understand OK.

      Allen, no one knows were demons come from.
      there is satan, the devil, the old dragon, the murderer from the beginning - 1 being 4 names - showing 4 character traits,
      can we agree here?

      ok.

      between Gen v 1 and v 2 - some suggest a gap theory where chaos entered '' the it was good realm''
      prior to the formation of Adam.
      some suggest that a pre-adamic race existed prior too adam, they were destroyed.

      when these people died, they became demons [some have suggested] and they are beings without bodies, who have all manner of weaknesses remaining and need to ''possess a body'' so these weaknesses are fed and multiplied.

      their host can be anything, but humans are preferred - remember the 2000 demons that came out from that man and into the swine -
      remember their conversation with the Saviour?

      so let us say, this is correct [ but we dont know for sure] but let us suppose this is so, and so another being wants to exhibited and feed itself off a human host who will now display this unseen being chief characteristic.

      so here we all are in 2011 ignorant of this fact, what fact?
      that an ancient dead being wants to use us to fed its addictions and sins and comes into us as we open the door to it [in ignorance] by obeying their needs THAT WERE NEVER OUR OWN.

      unwillingly we have all been deceived into losing our lives to other beings who we have allowed to control us because we are unaware of them and we think, we are the master of our own thinking patterns - but this is no so most of the time.

      so to get this ''scene'' straight in our mind-so how about i suggest another angle ti view this game of deceptions being played out upon us all.

      view 2
      we are all birthed into vanity and the whole world is deceived so we are told.
      We think we think for ourselves, but in reality, we think for another being who wants to live thru us and for us to MEET ITS NEEDS - and those needs destroy us, BUT we are all duped into thinking , its us who is doing our thinking.
      Jesus said ''forgive them Father, for they know not what they do''?

      really.

      in vanity these men knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

      but Jesus said ''FORGIVE THEM FATHER, THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THE DO'' meaning, they were totally ignorant of the full blown deception in the world and WHY THEY DID AS THEY DID.

      NOW PAUL said '' my mind tells me dont do that, but i do it ''O WRETCHED MAN that i am'' [paraphrased]

      so sin is within not because we sin BUT BECAUSE WE ALLOW sinfull beings to have power over us and we dont know it.

      ie
      a man, is all ok and goes and gambles and wins, soon a ''habit is formed'' to gamble - a viper has been allowed in [ by ignorance] and this viper now feeds its addiction off the poor man - who NEVER wanted to be this way anyways.
      remember that 5 mins before he ''had this thought to gambled'' he had never thought of it.
      THAT THOUGHT WAS PLANTED THERE and he could not refuse it.
      THE THOUGHT HAD THE POWER TO CONTROL HIM.

      THAT ANCIENT BEING choose a weak vessel and manipulated that man to do evil and stumbled that man and made his life a misery and a torment.
      once in- that man was powerless.
      and it is the same for all besetting sins. THE POWER game is a controlling game to do an ancient beings bidding.

      5 mins before, that man HAD NOT considered gambling.

      so, here we are, powerless because of ignorance and so when a ''suggestion comes'' we all know is evil/sin/not according to Jesus life = JESUS SAYS ''TAKE NO THOUGHT''.

      now unless we are aware of these unseen beings and their goings on - what does it mean TAKE NO THOUGHT - BRING EACH THOUGHT CAPTIVE etc....

      who does it?
      not too many.
      why?

      for hardly anyone KNOWS about the unholy deception being carried on all over them and around them daily,
      by whom?
      by these unseen beings who want to feed off humans and use humans as hosts and the humans allow it because they are ignorant of ''satan's devices''.

      unless these beings are controlled BY THE WORD OF GOD - meaning - IN TAKING NO THOUGHT, men die.
      you see Allen if this is factual - a man cannot serve 2 masters.

      a man cannot control himself, if he is ignorantly controlled by demons.
      a man can only control himself IF he is SET FREE BY THE TRUTH.
      Jesus said '' I COME TO SET THE CAPTIVES FREE''

      IF A MAN SEES THE TRUTH he is well able to say NO and mean it.
      Yes it does take practice but once truth is revealed THE ROAD INTO TRUE FREEDOM BEGINS. amen


      while a man remains in deception, he is dead because HE IS NOT HIS OWN MAN but belongs to another [ however unwillingly]

      now Allen, ponder upon it please.........

      and remember NEXT TIME YOUR ARE TEMPTED say ''NO'' do not allow another to control you
      And 'take no thought'' that is imparted into your mind that only serves demons interests BUT NOT YOUR OWN.
      why not prove me wrong OK
      YOU PROVE LUCY WRONG - learn to say NO and see for yourself.

      something to think about.

      Comment


      • #4
        cont -Allen - everywhere Jesus went He cast out demons..............

        so i have heard- so do many pentecostal churches.
        YET they remain apostate and die in sin like all men.

        also we are told in Messiah's ministry, He released the brokenhearted, the sick, the captives - HE SET THEM FREE - we all know His marvellous ministry not repeated in the same likness.
        kinda a 1 off.


        we are told, about these things in the NT - and glimpse these acts - It says ''WHEN THE LORD SETS YOU FREE, YOU ARE FREE INDEED.'' Jhn 8 v 36.

        LOOK AT THE #s please.

        #8 - new beginnings, new life, resurrection life
        #36 - the enemy.

        so Jesus was setting men free from their deceptive enemies by imparting into them NEW RESURRECTION LIFE. - this is witnessed by the verse #s.

        Galatians 5:1
        It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
        Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
        the bible is rather skimpy on great descriptions i e.- ''He preached to the Multitudes and they were amazed at His preaching and they said '' no man preached as He did''.

        so =MESSIAH TALKED TO PEOPLE AND WHILE HE TALKED HE TOLD THEM HOW TO BE FREE, AND THIS FREEDOM WOULD MAKE THEM NEW AND THIS NEWNESS, WOULD RESURRECTION THEM out FROM THE DEAD.

        SO, what was the '''GUTS''' of His conversions that freed people.?

        HE TOLD THEM THE TRUTH so SUDDENLY THEY BECAME FREE FROM THEIR FORMER DECEPTIONS.
        THE YOKE OF SLAVERY was suddenly rippen off them as they SAW THE TRUTH OVER ALL THEIR SITUATIONS.

        when the truth hits us, SNAP, our bondages are gone.
        a release is so mighty.

        so when i knew, as Messiah preached to me - I got set free, not all of a sudden, because it is a walk, and freedom has to be gotten used too. I knew i had a choice - 1] TO BE CONTROLLED by others i did not want 2] TO SERVE THE LORD, that i really wanted.

        i have learnt after many hickups to serve HIM.

        my mind is changing over to a ''sound mind'' rather than having a mind being filled with another beings acts and wants.

        i am becoming MY OWN NEW MAN, by His grace.
        THIS MEANS - my spiritual man - THE TRUE ME-IS ARISING and growing up into His fullness to be a part of His army.

        here is a ''proclaimation'' the words proclaimed out that came from derek prince, who had good edification on spiritual warfare i had learnt 20+ yrs ago.
        I had to learn this as an Overcomer's walk u see.
        [rev 12 v 11]

        i am slotted into ''the redeemed'' by His grace so i cannot boast I would not let the Father Go ''till He blessed me'' I gave HIM no choice as i was so utterly desperate to be changed.
        Perhaps it was because i hated sin so much in myself i was so desperate to be free.

        Proclamation for Overcomers
        Let the redeemed say so...
        My body is a temple for the Holy Spirit, redeemed,
        cleansed, and sanctified by the blood of Jesus.

        My members, the parts of my body, are instruments
        of righteousness, yielded to God for His service and for His glory.


        The devil has no place in me, no power over me, no unsettled

        claims against me.



        All has been settled by the blood of Jesus.



        I overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb and by the

        word of my testimony and I do not love my life to the death.



        My body is for the Lord and the Lord is for my body.


        when we ''proclaim'' our destiny as the Spirit reveals, we co-opperate together and serve HIM rather than being deceived.
        We LIVE THE TRANSITION out from the deceptive narrow path of slavery - A BELIEVER IS A HERO GENERATION, released because by faith, and love, and the truth being revealed and the light [knowledge] shining on all deception.

        in saying all of this -rather than talk - it has to be lived in - this living in - is the testimony that overcomes
        why?
        because transformation takes place by the revelation of the a truth and remember THE TRUTH IS A PERSON.

        Messiah comes in and preaches the Kingdom of Heaven into our Spiritman - he is Graphic and intense with His teaching, as there is NO compromise with sin.
        the thing to remember is these other-beings called demons are already defeated.
        it has to be understood, that sin causes a LEGAL right for demons to torment and inhabit.
        sowing and reaping.

        we are told to be ''as bold as a lion, a good soldier, to rise up in the Spirit, to scatter our enemies.

        eating ''the Covenant of Salt'' with the Bridegroom, a believer, gets understanding, as it is an intimate ''sup''.
        He speaks to a Believer as He did with Nicodemus.
        He teaches how to avoid HOLES in our lives.

        as example.....
        in my shop i dont have any survelance , if someone wants to steal, that is between them and the lord, i trust in HIM to take care and allow a ''spirit of Excellence'' to dwell there.
        i leave my home unlocked - if they want to steal my things = great who cares - i dont.
        It seems as if this world fades away and nothing here really matters too much.
        its the new man who is so important - and the old man - decreasing.

        Comment


        • #5
          so Allen, we have now advanced to a harsh reality......

          exposure time.
          a man filled with lying spirits.

          There was a man named Johannes Greber who was deeply involved with the occult.
          He was the translator of the Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation Bible.

          He openly states that he accomplished this through his wife who was a medium.

          By using his wife and contacting a demon in the spirit world (which is totally unscriptural) he came up with a "doctrinal statement."

          Although these are doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses, one can clearly see that many are what Herbert Armstrong taught as truth.

          When we realize that HWA plagiarized doctrines from the JW's (and others), this should come as no surprise. (See chapter three of ESN's critical review of Mystery of the Ages for proof of this.)

          Following are direct quotes from the demon that Johannes Greber contacted:
          1.Jesus Christ is not God.
          2.Jehovah only is God (the Father).
          3.Jesus Christ is a created being.
          4.Michael (the archangel) is a God.
          5.Christ's body was not resurrected.
          6.The body of Jesus was dematerialized.
          7.There is no eternal hell.
          8.Higher powers of Romans 13 are not the earthly governments.
          9.The Bible is not inspired or dependable.
          10.The Christian church today is not preaching the gospel.

          While Herbert Armstrong did not teach every one of the above, we can spot the ones he copied from Jehovah's Witnesses.

          When members started exiting Worldwide Church of God in 1995 as a result of the new doctrinal changes, they were very unclear about the Trinity due to HWA's teaching.
          In the 1996 Plain Truth Joseph Tkach, Jr. says, "Gone is our long-held view of God as a family of multiple spirit beings into which humans may be born, replaced by a biblically accurate view of one God who exists eternally as three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." Notice that he avoided the word "Trinity." Many members were left in the dark about what he was talking about, and the WCG leadership never went into depth about the Holy Spirit being a Divine Being because they didn't want to have to confess that they had committed utter blasphemy in their view of God, nor did they want to deal with the enormity of it.

          WCG headquarters, instead, started talking about "hypostasies," which was entirely confusing to the members.
          They only spent two Sabbaths discussing what they called the "nature of God." On one headquarters' tape Dr. Stavrinides chastised members for being ignorant of Greek and stated that he had always understood that God was three beings in one
          . That's laughable considering how he never wrote any articles in all the decades he was in the WCG about this (as he says) "important" issue.
          If he knew the proper Greek all along, then why didn't he refute HWA's teachings about the Trinity being "pagan"? HWA was openly adamant about this. Even more interesting is that no member ever heard from this Greek "Dr." since that sermon!

          Herbert Armstrong's teaching on the denial of the Trinity is very similar to what Jehovah's Witnesses taught. Read: The History of the Trinity: What the Watchtower Doesn't Want You to Know. [offsite link]

          "Contrary to popular misconception, Constantine did not have a vote, nor did he participate in the arguments for or against the Trinity.
          After the council of Nicaea, Constantine converted to Arianism. Soon after, anyone who opposed the Arian doctrine was exiled. … It is commonly taught that Constantine instituted the Trinity doctrine into the church. History reveals that the opposite is true. Constantine was baptized as an Arian. The Arians were anti-Trinitarians. The change in the church was not as the result of the Council of Nicaea. At the council, the historic position of the church was affirmed and written into a creed. It was after this council that historic Christianity was exiled and replaced with the Arian heresy."
          (Excerpted from: Heresies and Heretics in the Early Church, p. 5, by Eddie Snipes, Exchanged Life Ministries)

          If you need help in untwisting HWA's demonic doctrines, one place is Kevin Quick's website (former Jehovah's Witness), as he has an excellent book Reasoning with Jehovah's Witnesses that can be downloaded for free.

          Kevin Quick's testimony is incredible. When he was a Jehovah's Witness, he did an intense Bible study to try to prove Christians wrong. The result? Kevin proved them right and he accepted Jesus as his personal Savior. His notes are very helpful because he first gives the JW's belief, or beliefs, then he asks questions concerning it and next quotes 10 or more scriptures for the answer. For instance, he clearly shows through Scripture the deity of Christ, which HWA and all cultic groups will deny. (See footnote #3 below which shows HWA taught the heretical belief that Jesus had "sinful flesh" and was not the eternal Son of God.)

          When you say that you believe in God and deny the deity of Christ, you really do not believe in God, certainly not the God of the Bible. ~ J. Vernon McGee

          Investigate every anti-Trinitarian quote from HWA and you will find that every quote is a misquote, which left out pertinent information that supported the Trinity. (For evidence that I John 5:7 is a part of Scripture, see The Epistle of 1st John - a Brief Commentary.) When you challenge the teachings that have been ingrained into your mind by HWA's twisted logic and just read the Scriptures, it all becomes quite clear.

          I hope you will no longer doubt the deity of Jesus, nor the personage of the Holy Spirit.
          I feel that as long as a person does not acknowledge this, he can never fully understand God. All religious cults deny the deity of Jesus, so that should tell you something right there.

          We have only covered a sample of what Herbert Armstrong taught. For much more information on HWA's doctrines and how he perverted the Scriptures, see our list of books that are helpful in refuting Armstrong's doctrinal errors.

          Prayers for Freedom From Spiritual Strongholds

          The false teacher first departs from the truth, next he listens to and co-operates with "deluding spirits." This is how "doctrines of demons" are born. ~ Merrill F. Unger

          By D. Williams and Lindsey
          Exit & Support Network™
          November 22, 2005
          Last updated May 26, 2007
          http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/mike_ep/exam/lies.htm

          the lying spirit enters into the pews.
          why?
          because they have allowed themselves to be legally deceived for Messiah said ''follow me'' - no glory shall the Holy Spirit give another.

          Comment


          • #6
            Diabolical Doctrine

            Hi Lucy, would you not agree that the following statements are diabolical doctrines?

            "Jesus Christ allowed His body to be literally RIPPED OPEN in hundreds of places until He could not even be recognized! He suffered this torture so you and I, through faith in His broken body for us, may have the FORGIVENESS of our PHYSICAL SINS — the healing of our bodies when we are sick — as well as the FORGIVENESS of our SPIRITUAL SINS by His shed blood!"

            “How does Christ’s broken body make our healing possible? ... Simply by having PAID THE PENALTY IN OUR STEAD — THAT’S HOW!"

            How could someone have such delusional beliefs? ImAHebrew
            Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

            Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
            Abstain from meats offered to idols
            (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
            So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

            Comment


            • #7
              reading the bible......we find many things that seem ''odd'' to the carnal mind.

              to whom it may concern.

              isa 53
              ''But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed''.


              Romans 4:25
              '' He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification'''.


              Hebrews 9:28
              ''so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him''.

              1 Peter 2:24
              ''He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.''


              Romans 4:25
              He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

              1 Corinthians 15:3
              ''For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures'',

              Hebrews 5:8
              '' Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered.''

              Hebrews 9:28
              ''so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him''.

              1 Peter 2:24
              He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

              1 Peter 2:25
              For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

              Isaiah 53:11
              ''After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light [of life] and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities''

              it is also interesting to note that in the OT 250,000 lambs were slaughtered and screaming, fear, blood and gore and smells everywhere - that is how repulsive sin is IN FATHER'S EYES.
              people dont hate their sins enough and they dont have a ''FATHER'S EYES''.

              http://www.keithhunt.com/Lambmany.html
              sins is normal
              sin is death
              death is a friend
              death is abnormal
              sinning is abnormal living.


              who is NORMAL - VERY FEW.

              so for some diabolical facts shall we....................
              Time Needed to Sacrifice Passover Lambs

              How long would it take to slaughter a quarter-million lambs in
              the restricted area of the Temple court? The slaughtering took
              place in the so-called Court of the Priests and the court of
              Israel. The COMBINED SURFACE area of the TWO courts was LESS than
              10,000 square feet. 'The Court of Israel was 135 cubits long and
              11 cubits wide. Next was the Court of the Priests of the SAME
              SIZE as the Court of Israel
              (W. F. Stinespring, 'The
              Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible - Nashville, 1962, vol. 4,
              p. 554).

              Since a cubit corresponds to about 20 inches, each court was
              approximately 225 feet long and 18 feet wide. Allowing 2 1/2
              feet per person, the Court of Israel could accommodate at MOST a
              HUNDRED Jews at a time up shoulder to shoulder with their lambs.

              To estimate how long it would take for a hundred Jews to
              sacrifice their paschal lambs in the Temple Court, one must
              understand the elaborate ritual that was followed.
              EDERSHEIM offers us an INFORMATIVE description of the ritual.

              ' Each division (group of Jews allowed in the Temple Court at one
              time) must consist of not less than thirty persons (3x10, the
              symbolic number of the Divine and of completeness). Immediately
              the massive gates were closed behind them. The priests drew a
              threefold blast from their silver trumpets when the Passover lamb
              was slain. Altogether the scene was most impressive. All along
              the Court up to the altar of burnt-offering priests stood in two
              rows, the one holding the golden, the other, silver bowls. In
              these the blood of the Paschal lambs, which each Israelite slew
              for himself (as representative of his company at the Paschal
              Supper), was caught up by a priest, who handed it to his
              colleague, receiving back an empty bowl, and so the bowls with
              the blood were passed up to the priest at the altar, who jerked
              it in one jet at the base of the altar. while this was going on,
              a most solemn hymn of praise was raised, the Levites leading
              in song, and the offerers either repeating after them or merely
              responding.....This service of song consisted of the so-called
              Hallel, which comprises Psalms 113 to 118.....Next, the
              sacrifices were hung up on hooks along the court, or laid on
              staves which rested on the shoulders of two men (on Sabbath they
              were not laid on staves), then flayed, the entrails taken out and
              cleansed, and the inside fat separated, put in a dish, salted,
              and placed on the fire of the altar of burnt-offering. This
              completed the sacrifice.....the service being in each case
              conducted in precisely the same manner' (Alfred Edersheim - The
              Temple, Its Ministry and Services' - London 1874, pp. 191-193).

              Assuming that it took ONLY TEN minutes to fulfil this elaborate
              sacrificial ritual (a rather CONSERVATIVE estimate), means that
              in one hour ONLY SIX groups of a hundred Jews could be admitted
              in the Temple court. Thus ONLY SIX HUNDRED lambs could be slain
              PER HOUR.....the slaying began earlier, at about 1: 30 p.m., and
              lasted until about 6: 00 p.m., FEWER THAN 3,000 lambs could be
              SLAIN in the Temple court in FOUR-AND-A-HALF HOURS. If the figure
              given by Josephus of 256,500 lambs slaughtered as Passover in the
              Temple Court is correct, IT WOULD TAKE OVER 417 HOURS (OVER 17
              DAYS) NONSTOP to slaughter that many lambs. OBVIOUSLY this could
              NOT be accomplished in ONE AFTERNOON.

              cont...........

              Comment


              • #8
                killing the lambs

                cont...
                We have reason to believe that the figures given by Josephus are
                HIGHLY INFLATED.....SUPPOSING the ACTUAL number of lambs slain at
                Passover was ONLY ONE TENTH of Josephus' figure, that is, ONLY
                25,000, it would STILL TAKE OVER 40 HOURS to slaughter that many
                lambs in the Temple court at the rate of SIX HUNDRED lambs per
                HOUR.

                OBVIOUSLY, again, even 25,000 lambs COULD NOT be slain in ONE
                AFTERNOON......"

                End of quote from Dr. Bacciocchi


                Dr. Sam goes on to say that in the year Jesus died, they could
                well have started to slay the Passover lambs the day BEFORE the
                14th of Nisan, in other words on the 13th day of Nisan.

                As to Josephus' computations of the population of Jerusalem and
                surrounding area being as high as 3,000,000 at Passover time,
                Edersheim has a foot note in his book "The Temple - Its Ministry
                and Services" that says: "These computations, being derived from
                official documents, can scarcely have been exaggerated. Indeed,
                Josephus expressly guards himself against this charge."

                Well for sure we know there would have been at least a FEW
                HUNDRED THOUSAND people added to the population of Jerusalem at
                Passover time, all coming from not only Palestine but from all
                areas of the Roman Empire where Jews were living. If we go with
                Dr. Sam's suggestion of about only 25,000 lambs slain in the
                Temple, we are talking about 250,000 persons (using 10 persons to
                share one lamb, being the overall average) that would have been
                in Jerusalem that observed the Pharisees teaching of slaying the
                lamb in the Temple and eating it at the beginning of the 15th of
                Nisan. 250,000 is certainly conservative for the number Jews from
                all parts of the Roman Empire, who were members of the Pharisees
                sect, and who would have been in Jerusalem for any given
                Passover.
                Hence going with Dr. Sam's thought of 25,000 lambs slain in the
                Temple at Passover time, is very realistic. And with what we have
                found from Edersheim, on how the Passover lamb was ritually slain
                in the Temple by the priests, and giving as Dr. Sam says 10
                minutes for each lamb, they would have HAD to START slaying the
                lambs at least by the 13th of Nisan......and remember that would
                be NONE STOP, day and night, from the 13th day to about 6 p.m. on
                the 14th day.

                If we want to try and put the slaying of 25,000 lambs into the
                time frame of 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. on the afternoon of the 14th day,
                then they would have ritually slain 5,000 lambs AN HOUR, and you
                can soon figure how many wound had to have been ritually slain
                every minute...like running your Video or DVD movie on fast
                speed, all the way through.

                Given all these historic facts, we can now see that the idea of
                saying the slaying of the lambs started at 3 p.m. on the
                afternoon of the 14th of Nisan, the time that Christ is by
                many said to have died, is just not founded on any solid
                foundation at all, and is in truth a misguided idea that has
                sprung up from misinformed people, who themselves were
                probably parroting the misguided idea of some misinformed person
                who was misinformed by not knowing the historical facts of the
                whole numerics of the 14th Passover day, especially as taught and
                physically PRACTICED by the Pharisees and the priests in the
                Temple.

                All this just simply points out even in more detail, how the
                traditions of the Pharisees had got to the point where Jesus
                stated what He did in Mark 7: 1-13. They had first started
                a tradition of teaching the PRIESTS had to be a part of the
                ritual of slaying the Passover lamb, then adding to that, the
                tradition of saying the Passover lamb HAD TO BE SLAIN
                in the TEMPLE.
                Neither of the two above can be found to be required laws of the
                Passover in the books of Moses or the first five books of your
                Bible.

                When we understand the Passover lambs were slain in small PRIVATE
                groups (as Jesus and His 12 disciples did in Jesus' last Passover
                on earth), at the BEGINNING of the 14th day, in the evening of
                the 14th day of Nisan, WITHOUT having to go through ANY Temple
                ritual in the Temple, that included having a priest perform part
                of the ritual, THEN we could understand that Josephus may have
                been very correct in stating that the population of Jerusalem on
                the Passover day (the 14th) had in some years, reached as high as
                3,000,000 people.

                Of course I realize the counter argument could say that most did
                not bother to go to the Temple and have their Passover lamb slain
                in a ritual manner, but did it themselves at the beginning of the
                15th. This of course would mean they rejected, at least in part,
                the teaching of the Pharisees. Yet, even allowing for this
                argument, Edersheim still says in his aforementioned book on the
                Temple, that they moved up the evening sacrifice to about 1 p.m.
                and then immediately started the Passover lamb slaying.

                I guess you could argue that with all the private lambs slain in
                small groups at the beginning of the 14th and beginning of the
                15th day (if you followed the Pharisees teaching) and who ignored
                anything to do with Temple ritual of slaying those lamds, you
                could get over 200,000 lambs slain within a 24 hour period, BUT
                that would not jive with Josephus claiming 256,000 plus lambs
                were slain in the TEMPLE court ritual itself. Josephus may have
                just mixed it all together and claimed it was all done in the
                Temple court, which as Dr. Sam has noted could not possibly be
                the case as it would have taken over 17 DAYS to kill that number
                of lambs in the Temple ritual, as outlined by Edersheim.

                This study is to merely show that the idea that the Passover lamb
                slaying in the Temple started at 3 p.m. when many state (no
                specific NT proof can be found - see my study called "How the NT
                uses 'hours'") Jesus died (just as they killed the first lamb in
                the Temple), has no basis in fact. Such an idea is a myth....may
                sound real nice, as if fulfilling some OT prophecy or "typology"
                type symbol (which is also not found in any part of the OT). But
                it is still a myth nevertheless.

                The truth of the matter is not always easy to admit, but as Jesus
                said, "You shall know the truth and the truth will set you
                free".....of course you must want to be set free, to be free.
                Many are happy to remain in their deceived bondage. I hope you
                are not one of them.
                ..................................

                January 2003

                ----------------- as we can see, the Father's view of sin is horrendous.

                so why sin?

                simply stop.

                Jesus said ''go and sin no more'' - is He a liar?

                why not learn how to stop.

                Comment


                • #9
                  True Remission FROM sin.

                  Hi Lucy, here is a simple explanation for the difference between the “diabolical doctrine” of using Innocent Blood for the forgiveness of your sin, and the Truthful using of Innocent Blood for the remission of your sin.

                  In my last post I quoted the diabolical teachings that maintain the beating and punishing of Someone, will give sinners forgiveness, just by believing that the punished One was punished "in their stead." This is a doctrine of a devil, food offered to an idol. Yeshua said His food was to do Yahweh’s will and accomplish His work, but this food, this false belief, is a full course meal of delusionalism, something that is offered to an “idol.” This is something that Yeshua hates, just like He hated the doctrine of the Nicolaitans. Substitutionalism is a false doctrine, and to believe that the Innocent One and Just One is required by Elohim’s justice to die in the place of sinners, is just plain nonsense. What parent would punish their only good child just so they could be able to forgive their disobedient children? Its nonsense and it is a doctrine of a demon.

                  So, how can the shedding of Innocent Blood redeem or bring about the remission of sin? It is written that the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin. Why is that? The Jews looked at the shedding of the blood of those animals EXACTLY the same way as the delusional Christians look at the shedding of “Jesus’” blood. They thought that if you just shed the blood of that animal in their stead, Elohim would forgive them, and then they could REMAIN in their sin. All they had to do was purchase or give another animal to “die in their stead,” and they would not stop sinning (just sacrifice another animal). There was no motivation to have their sins “taken away” in their lives, for what value or cost was the shedding of that animal’s blood. To them it was only economics, there was no real motivation for their sin to be removed, and this is why it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to “take away” sin.

                  Not so with the Blood of Yeshua. When a sinner realizes that their sin CAUSED the shedding of His Blood, His suffering and death, they are then motivated to “turn from their sin.” Their sin is “taken away.” They are no longer dwelling in active sin, and their sin now goes INTO remission. Think along the lines of how cancer goes INTO remission, it's stil there, but no longer actively killing the person. In the same way, the shedding of His Blood CLEANSES you FROM your sin, and your sin goes INTO remission. You no longer REMAIN in SIN; you are CLEANSED from that why of life, to now SERVE the Living Elohim. This is how Yeshua’s Blood saves you and TAKES AWAY your sin. Only someone who hates Him would continue IN their sin, shedding His Blood.

                  Now, concerning forgiveness, YES, once a sinner repents, and turns FROM their sin, NONE of their former sins are remembered:

                  Eze 33:14-16 "But when I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and he turns from his sin and practices justice and righteousness, (15) if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. (16) "None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered against him. He has practiced justice and righteousness; he shall surely live.

                  Yeshua’s Blood was shed so that sinners would repent and TURN from their sin, and in doing so, they receive forgiveness, non of their former sins are remembered. So please, do not believe the delusional doctrine that teaches “Jesus” died in your stead so that “God” could forgive you. This is a lie and should no longer be believed. ImAHebrew

                  P.S. Next we will speak about the true meaning of Yeshua's Blood, and how you have LIFE in IT.
                  Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                  Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                  Abstain from meats offered to idols
                  (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                  So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    the truth of the situation........................

                    not from man's ideas or theories but from the NT.

                    -------------------------------------
                    DEATH IS ABOLISHED!

                    "Verily verily I say unto you if a man
                    keep my saying, he shall never see
                    death! Jn.8:51.
                    "He that believeth in
                    me though he were dead yet shall he
                    live; whosoever liveth and believeth in
                    me shall never die!" Jn.11:25
                    These few
                    statements of Jesus have been brushed
                    aside constantly by theologians to refer
                    only to spiritual death in lake of fire.
                    However considering the whole context of
                    the discussions taking place while those
                    utterances were made, it portrayed
                    clearly that Chist was talking about
                    physical death. He also came back in
                    the book of Revelation 2 & 3 to declare
                    that He has the keys of death and of
                    hell! It must be pointed out that it is
                    the devil that kills men as it is
                    written: "that He might destroy he that
                    has the power of death even the
                    devil".(Heb.2:14) When Christ died on
                    the cross and rose again "He led
                    captivity captive"(Ephe.4:8) He has
                    abolished death! (2 Timothy 1:10) In
                    analogy, when the slave trade was
                    abolished in the world by higher
                    authority in earlier century, some
                    stubborn slave masters would not let go
                    of their slaves. If the slaves
                    revolted, the slave master would have no
                    government agent to come to his aid but
                    many slaves were scared of their master
                    and did not. The same similar thing is
                    going on in the world today. Since
                    Christ declared that He has saved man
                    from sin, only few are coming forward
                    and claiming the salvation Jesus
                    purchased for us on the cross..."By His
                    blood we are redeemed". Since Christ
                    declared that He has healed our
                    sicknesses, even fewer are claiming the
                    divine healing of Jesus. "By whose
                    stripes ye were healed". since Christ
                    declared that He has abolished death,
                    practically none has come forward to
                    claim this liberty from physical death!
                    Only believe and profess it! The Just
                    shall live by faith! You ask me why
                    multitudes will not believe for
                    salvation to live above sin ....because
                    they live by sight, seeing the whole
                    world in sin, they profess "we are all
                    sinners" so no one can be free from sin
                    they said. It takes revelation from
                    Jesus for them to be saved -- by
                    preaching of the gospel of salvation.
                    You ask me again why multitudes, even
                    church folks, don't believe in divine
                    healing...? unbelief! They live by
                    sight -- seeing multitudes around them
                    afflicted by the slave masters with
                    various diseases, they get scared and
                    will not claim such promise of God for
                    their healing. It also takes revelation
                    from Jesus for the few believers that
                    believe in divine healing for them to
                    resist the slave masters that torment
                    mankind with diseases. Understand me
                    clearly! Believing in divine healing
                    does not mean the devils will not
                    attack, but the devils are more scared
                    to lay their hands on them that believe
                    this; because when we insisted by
                    confessing to the devil that Christ's
                    promise is forever true, God's angels
                    will smite the devil before long if he
                    did not remove his filthy hand. Since
                    the devils are thieves and robbers they
                    will still try but when we stand our
                    guard believing and claiming our right
                    that Christ has given us our peace and
                    our good health, the devils have to
                    flee.

                    The same principle works against death,
                    and this is the age during which we can
                    put the devil to shame as it is written
                    "the last enemy to be destroyed is
                    death!" (1 Cor.15:26) This is the age
                    when Christ is coming soon and we only
                    need to resist the enemy for few more
                    years till Christ come in rapture. I
                    strongly believe "Enoch walked with God"
                    and he was not for the Lord took him.
                    The Lord took him because it was not yet
                    time for immortal men to inhabit this
                    planet earth. Else he would have been
                    around till now. Elijah also got enough
                    power to resist every attempt of death
                    upon his life by calling fire upon
                    enemies before he left this planet.
                    Christ now is saying "verily verily i
                    say unto you if a man keep my saying he
                    shall never see death".Jn.8:51. This is
                    the faith of the end time, rapturing
                    faith -- the climax! Satan will resist
                    it just as he resisted salvation, and
                    healing by many means, to the extent of
                    even using some preachers to preach
                    against it, and whole denominations
                    kicking against it; so shall he resist
                    this declaration of faith against death
                    to the extent of killing a few to
                    terrify the others from believing like
                    that; but "the FEARFUL and unbelieving
                    .... and all liars shall have their part
                    in the lake which burneth with fire and
                    brimstone which is the second death!"
                    (Rev.21: ) Christ has defeated the devil
                    2000 years ago and He has given the
                    victory to the saints. Lo, He
                    saith:"Fear not, i am the first and the
                    last. I am He that liveth and was dead,
                    and behold i am alive for ever more,
                    amen; and have the keys of hell and of
                    death"(Rev.1:17). Yea, the just shall
                    live by faith! Christ has abolished
                    death! Believe it, claim it, that you
                    shall live till Christ comes! Don't give
                    in your will to death -- even on sick-
                    bed. Scientists know that strong will
                    to live has taken a lot of people off
                    death bed, whereas a lot of believers
                    just give in to death hoping to prefer
                    Paradise. I don't blame those whose
                    body has weakened so much due to old
                    age prefering to put away the old
                    tabernacle that no longer function as it
                    ought, but when Christ saith "if a man
                    KEEP my sayings", the whole package is
                    contained in the "sayings", to keep the
                    body from decaying through old age or
                    disease, to rejuvenate the body
                    constantly and keep alive from attacks
                    from the enemy. Only an Unbeliever will
                    think Christ cannot do these things!
                    Part of the "sayings" are holiness,
                    fasting, divine health which means
                    eating right in wisdom etc. "If a man
                    keep my sayings, he shall never see
                    death!" He is more than able! He is
                    coming soon! Foot-note: When Adam and
                    Eve sinned in the garden of Eden, we all
                    know that from thence sin,sickness and
                    death came upon human race. We also
                    know that When Jesus Christ died on the
                    cross, our sins are forgiven. If we then
                    have been washed by his blood, it should
                    follow that sickness and death should be
                    removed since they are the curse of
                    disobedience. If we believe that when
                    Christ said "It is finished" on the
                    cross our redemption is completed we
                    ought to believe that He abolished death
                    also --- to him that believeth! As we
                    claim our healing by confessing positive
                    promises of God and believing them
                    concerning any sickness ("By His stripes
                    we are healed" Isa.53) we also have to
                    claim our victory over death. (Christ
                    "has abolished death and has brought
                    life and immortality to light through
                    the gospel", 2Tim.1:10).
                    from
                    gospeldistribution.com

                    while preaching is good - HEARING IS BETTER AND ONCE U HAVE HEARD ''death has been abolished'' out from the Saviour's lips for yourself nothing shall take you back to those lying spirits of all brand name religions and its people.

                    nothing shall move a believer SIDEWAYS - they become like an Elijah in type [notice i said IN type only] because Elijah would not have anyone PULL HIM OFF HIS MOUNTAIN TOP.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      the truth of the situation........................

                      not from man's ideas or theories but from the NT.

                      -------------------------------------
                      DEATH IS ABOLISHED!

                      "Verily verily I say unto you if a man
                      keep my saying, he shall never see
                      death! Jn.8:51.
                      "He that believeth in
                      me though he were dead yet shall he
                      live; whosoever liveth and believeth in
                      me shall never die!" Jn.11:25
                      These few
                      statements of Jesus have been brushed
                      aside constantly by theologians to refer
                      only to spiritual death in lake of fire.
                      However considering the whole context of
                      the discussions taking place while those
                      utterances were made, it portrayed
                      clearly that Chist was talking about
                      physical death. He also came back in
                      the book of Revelation 2 & 3 to declare
                      that He has the keys of death and of
                      hell! It must be pointed out that it is
                      the devil that kills men as it is
                      written: "that He might destroy he that
                      has the power of death even the
                      devil".(Heb.2:14) When Christ died on
                      the cross and rose again "He led
                      captivity captive"(Ephe.4:8) He has
                      abolished death! (2 Timothy 1:10) In
                      analogy, when the slave trade was
                      abolished in the world by higher
                      authority in earlier century, some
                      stubborn slave masters would not let go
                      of their slaves. If the slaves
                      revolted, the slave master would have no
                      government agent to come to his aid but
                      many slaves were scared of their master
                      and did not. The same similar thing is
                      going on in the world today. Since
                      Christ declared that He has saved man
                      from sin, only few are coming forward
                      and claiming the salvation Jesus
                      purchased for us on the cross..."By His
                      blood we are redeemed". Since Christ
                      declared that He has healed our
                      sicknesses, even fewer are claiming the
                      divine healing of Jesus. "By whose
                      stripes ye were healed". since Christ
                      declared that He has abolished death,
                      practically none has come forward to
                      claim this liberty from physical death!
                      Only believe and profess it! The Just
                      shall live by faith! You ask me why
                      multitudes will not believe for
                      salvation to live above sin ....because
                      they live by sight, seeing the whole
                      world in sin, they profess "we are all
                      sinners" so no one can be free from sin
                      they said. It takes revelation from
                      Jesus for them to be saved -- by
                      preaching of the gospel of salvation.
                      You ask me again why multitudes, even
                      church folks, don't believe in divine
                      healing...? unbelief! They live by
                      sight -- seeing multitudes around them
                      afflicted by the slave masters with
                      various diseases, they get scared and
                      will not claim such promise of God for
                      their healing. It also takes revelation
                      from Jesus for the few believers that
                      believe in divine healing for them to
                      resist the slave masters that torment
                      mankind with diseases. Understand me
                      clearly! Believing in divine healing
                      does not mean the devils will not
                      attack, but the devils are more scared
                      to lay their hands on them that believe
                      this; because when we insisted by
                      confessing to the devil that Christ's
                      promise is forever true, God's angels
                      will smite the devil before long if he
                      did not remove his filthy hand. Since
                      the devils are thieves and robbers they
                      will still try but when we stand our
                      guard believing and claiming our right
                      that Christ has given us our peace and
                      our good health, the devils have to
                      flee.

                      The same principle works against death,
                      and this is the age during which we can
                      put the devil to shame as it is written
                      "the last enemy to be destroyed is
                      death!" (1 Cor.15:26) This is the age
                      when Christ is coming soon and we only
                      need to resist the enemy for few more
                      years till Christ come in rapture. I
                      strongly believe "Enoch walked with God"
                      and he was not for the Lord took him.
                      The Lord took him because it was not yet
                      time for immortal men to inhabit this
                      planet earth. Else he would have been
                      around till now. Elijah also got enough
                      power to resist every attempt of death
                      upon his life by calling fire upon
                      enemies before he left this planet.
                      Christ now is saying "verily verily i
                      say unto you if a man keep my saying he
                      shall never see death".Jn.8:51. This is
                      the faith of the end time, rapturing
                      faith -- the climax! Satan will resist
                      it just as he resisted salvation, and
                      healing by many means, to the extent of
                      even using some preachers to preach
                      against it, and whole denominations
                      kicking against it; so shall he resist
                      this declaration of faith against death
                      to the extent of killing a few to
                      terrify the others from believing like
                      that; but "the FEARFUL and unbelieving
                      .... and all liars shall have their part
                      in the lake which burneth with fire and
                      brimstone which is the second death!"
                      (Rev.21: ) Christ has defeated the devil
                      2000 years ago and He has given the
                      victory to the saints. Lo, He
                      saith:"Fear not, i am the first and the
                      last. I am He that liveth and was dead,
                      and behold i am alive for ever more,
                      amen; and have the keys of hell and of
                      death"(Rev.1:17). Yea, the just shall
                      live by faith! Christ has abolished
                      death! Believe it, claim it, that you
                      shall live till Christ comes! Don't give
                      in your will to death -- even on sick-
                      bed. Scientists know that strong will
                      to live has taken a lot of people off
                      death bed, whereas a lot of believers
                      just give in to death hoping to prefer
                      Paradise. I don't blame those whose
                      body has weakened so much due to old
                      age prefering to put away the old
                      tabernacle that no longer function as it
                      ought, but when Christ saith "if a man
                      KEEP my sayings", the whole package is
                      contained in the "sayings", to keep the
                      body from decaying through old age or
                      disease, to rejuvenate the body
                      constantly and keep alive from attacks
                      from the enemy. Only an Unbeliever will
                      think Christ cannot do these things!
                      Part of the "sayings" are holiness,
                      fasting, divine health which means
                      eating right in wisdom etc. "If a man
                      keep my sayings, he shall never see
                      death!" He is more than able! He is
                      coming soon! Foot-note: When Adam and
                      Eve sinned in the garden of Eden, we all
                      know that from thence sin,sickness and
                      death came upon human race. We also
                      know that When Jesus Christ died on the
                      cross, our sins are forgiven. If we then
                      have been washed by his blood, it should
                      follow that sickness and death should be
                      removed since they are the curse of
                      disobedience. If we believe that when
                      Christ said "It is finished" on the
                      cross our redemption is completed we
                      ought to believe that He abolished death
                      also --- to him that believeth! As we
                      claim our healing by confessing positive
                      promises of God and believing them
                      concerning any sickness ("By His stripes
                      we are healed" Isa.53) we also have to
                      claim our victory over death. (Christ
                      "has abolished death and has brought
                      life and immortality to light through
                      the gospel", 2Tim.1:10).
                      from
                      gospeldistribution.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        it is very hard to believe anyone would write this......

                        from IAH
                        ''Lucy, it is very clear in the Scriptures, the shedding of innocent blood ONLY brings condemnation and judgment, not forgiveness or justification.

                        So you really need to explain why your views of shedding innocent blood differ so much from what the Word of Elohim says''. ImAHebrew'




                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        hang on.... is my eyes seeing this right?
                        do i need glasses?

                        how is it possible with so many NT verses saying the opposite?
                        how can a person LIE and say ''my views'' oppose the NT?
                        how could any man DENY the NT and the work of the Messiah?
                        and then ''tell you'' about LIFE?
                        really.............................
                        ummm.
                        is this madness?
                        i feel like puking.


                        ''One could rightfully view Herbert Armstrong as the heretic’s heretic because
                        his teachings pulled from Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh-Day Adventists,
                        Christian Scientists, Judaism, Ebionites, and many others.
                        Investigation of his beliefs
                        show a very close comparison to the heresy of dynamic monarchianism, or simply,
                        Adoptionism''.[from the site below]

                        therefore everything this religious pervert thinks is perverted because he choose to be controlled by a perverted being.
                        so if i believe his works - i become perverted.
                        a known pervert = perverted into a perversion of the testiments.

                        see how it works?
                        and what is so true is this is exactly what happened.
                        he used man's theories and jumbled them together into chaos and chopped and changed his views.
                        this is UNSTABLE.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          what Jesus did for us...verses sited..................just the facts

                          Eph. 5:1-2,
                          "Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;
                          2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma."
                          *immitators of God
                          * walk in love.
                          * gave Himself up for us
                          * offering as a sacrifice.
                          ---------------------------------------------------------------
                          Gal. 1:4,
                          "who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us out of this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father."
                          * gave Himself for our sins
                          * to deliver us from this evil age.
                          ---------------------------------------------------------------

                          1 Cor. 15:3,
                          "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures."
                          * delivered you
                          * Christ died for our sins
                          * according to the scriptures.
                          --------------------------------------------------------------

                          1 Pet. 3:18,
                          "For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit."
                          * Christ also died for sins once and for all
                          * the just for the unjust
                          * bring us to God
                          --------------------------------------------------------------

                          2 Cor. 5:21,
                          "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
                          * He made Him, who had NO sin - to BE SIN ON OUR BEHALF.
                          * THAT WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM.
                          --------------------------------------------------------------

                          Rom. 4:25,
                          "He who was delivered up because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification."
                          * He who was delivered up because of our transgressions
                          * raised up because of our justification.,
                          --------------------------------------------------------------

                          Rom. 3:25,
                          "whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed."
                          --------------------------------------------------------------

                          1 John 2:2,
                          "and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
                          * an propitiation for our sins
                          * not only ours but the whole world.
                          --------------------------------------------------------------
                          propitiation means = transitive verb


                          : to gain or regain the favor or goodwill of
                          : appease.
                          so i could write ''Jesus Himself regained the goodwill for our sin.


                          "properly signifies the removal of wrath by the offering of a gift."
                          Propitiation properly deals with the wrath of God.
                          The wrath of God is due to the legal requirements of punishing the sinner.

                          Jesus is the one who fulfilled the law and never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22).
                          But, he bore our sins in his body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24)
                          and became sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21) thereby suffering the penalty of sin, which is death.''


                          i love the simplicity of Christ - a little child can understand His word
                          2 witnesses is all i need to establish truth but here is 3

                          Jesus is the one who fulfilled the law and never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22).

                          But, he bore our sins in his body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24)

                          and became sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21) thereby suffering the penalty of sin, which is death.''

                          is this simple?
                          is this easy to understand?

                          i believe these verses and NO man however sincere shall change my mind to what i read and understand here in the word of God.
                          i do believe these verses show in the most simpliest terms - the result of the cross.
                          how could anyone form ''some alternative views''

                          how is this possible?

                          so here is what i think..........................................
                          if you worked for satan, wouldnt you teach an opposing view, so that people who ''believed YOUR VIEW'' would be duped and deceived?
                          angels of light, are not a dragon with horns and all scarey but very nice people.

                          ok here is a list of ''what Jesus did''.
                          According to Scripture, Jesus Died For ...

                          Submitted by Kevin Jackson on Mon, 02/02/2009 - 8:30am
                          Atonement
                          Bible Passages

                          http://evangelicalarminians.org/acco...jesus-died-for
                          According to scripture, Jesus died for ...

                          Us all (Isaiah 53:6)
                          His people (Matthew 1:21)
                          All who are weary (Matthew 11:28)
                          Many (Matthew 20:28)
                          His people (Luke 1:68)
                          All the people (Luke 2:10)
                          The lost (Luke 19:10)
                          All who receive him (John 1:12)
                          The world (John 1:29)
                          Everyone who believes (John 3:15)
                          The world (John 3:16)
                          The world (John 3:17)
                          Whoever believes (John 3:18)
                          Whoever believes (John 3:36)
                          The world (John 4:42)
                          Whoever hears and believes (John 5:24)
                          The world (John 6:33)
                          He who comes and believes (John 6:35)
                          He who believes (John 6:47)
                          The world (John 6:51)
                          The sheep (John 10:7)
                          The sheep (John 10:11)
                          The sheep (John 10:15)
                          My sheep (John 10:27)
                          He who believes (John 11:25)
                          The Jewish nation (John 11:51)
                          The scattered children of God (John 11:52)
                          His friends (John 15:13)
                          Everyone who calls on the Lord (Acts 2:21)
                          The Church of God (Acts 20:28)
                          The ungodly (Romans 5:6)
                          Sinners (Romans 5:8)
                          God's enemies (Romans 5:10)
                          Many (Romans 5:15)
                          All Men (Romans 5:18)
                          Your brother (Romans 14:15)
                          The weak brother (1 Corinthians 8:11)
                          All (2 Corinthians 5:14)
                          All (2 Corintihans 5:15)
                          The world (2 Cor 5:19)
                          Paul (Galations 2:20)
                          The Church (Ephesians 5:25)
                          All men (1 Timothy 2:6)
                          All men, especially those who believe (1 Timothy 4:10)
                          All men (Titus 2:11)
                          Everyone (Hebrews 2:9)
                          Many people (Hebrews 9:28)
                          The unrighteous (1 Peter 3:18)
                          False prophets (2 Peter 2:1)
                          Us, and the whole world (1 John 2:2)
                          The world (1 John 4:14)

                          Isaiah 53 v6



                          6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
                          each of us has turned to our own way;
                          and the LORD has laid on him
                          the iniquity of us all.


                          is this not so simple to comprehend.?


                          Matthew 1:21


                          21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[a] because he will save his people from their sins.”


                          how could you alter the words of the Holy Spirit and make them mean something else?

                          Matthew 20:28


                          28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”


                          do you understand this simple explanation?


                          Luke 1:68

                          68 “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel,
                          because he has come to his people and redeemed them.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            True Remission OR False Substutitionalism

                            Hi Lucy, what you fail to realize is that EVERYONE of the Scriptures you quote in trying to present a substitutional forgiveness, can be explained TRUTHFULLY, as the actual removing of your sin. You preach being made into the "image" of Christ, and that is the TRUTH. He died to CHANGE you INTO what He is, He didn't die so that He could be punished in your stead, allowing you to remain IN sin with you continuing to ask "God" to forgive you based upon the shedding of His blood. That's delusional nonsense. IF you are CONFORMED INTO His image, BY the Sacrifice of Himself, through the shedding of His Innocent Blood, then doesn't His Sacrifice BECOME a "sweet aroma." Any process that can change a sinner INTO the "image" of Christ, is a sweet aroma, and even ALL the Angels of Heaven rejoice when just ONE sinner turns from their sin:

                            Luk 15:10 "In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of Elohim over one sinner who repents."

                            But no amount of Innocent Blood will save the one who has repented, and then FALLS BACK into deliberate sin:

                            Heb 6:4-6 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5) and have tasted the good word of Elohim and the powers of the age to come, (6) and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of Elohim and put Him to open shame.

                            Can you see Lucy? A sinner who has repented and been enlightened to the Spiritual side of Elohim's Word, if they fall back INTO their old life of sin so that they would have to come again to repentance, they are re-crucifying Yeshua afresh and re-shedding His Blood. This puts Him to open shame. Can't you see this.

                            Heb 10:24-29 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, (25) not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. (26) For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, (27) but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. (28) Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. (29) How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of Elohim, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

                            Yeshua's Innocent Blood was shed so that you would STOP sinning. No more "willful" sin, for IF you have "willful" sin, you regard His Innocent Blood as something that is UNCLEAN. And it would have been better for you to NEVER have known the Truth, than for you to have known it and then TURN BACK INTO a life of sin:

                            2Pe 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Master and Savior Yeshua Messiah, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. (21) For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. (22) It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

                            Yeshua's Innocent Blood was shed so that YOU would be CLEANSED from YOUR sin, and if AFTER coming INTO the knowledge of this process, you again become entangled in the defilement of sin, the last state is worse than the first. Yeshua said that he who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of Him. Those who look back and return to a life of sin are not worthy to receive life, and no amount of Innocent Blood shed "in their stead" will save them. This is the Truth Lucy. ImAHebrew
                            Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                            Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                            Abstain from meats offered to idols
                            (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                            So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Blood of the Covenant

                              Hi Lucy, do you have any understanding or knowledge about the "blood of the covenant." What is the "blood of the covenant?" ImAHebrew
                              Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                              Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                              Abstain from meats offered to idols
                              (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                              So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                              Comment

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