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**LucySmith** · 11-15-2011, 11:39 AM

now for some LIFE UNDERSTANDING Allen......

a believer is to WAGE WAR on death by ''putting it off and putting on the immortal life''.
immortal life is the nature of Abba,

these actions are done here and now and ''today as WE HEAR HIS VOICE'' saying ''walk this way''.
The church has never reproduced anyone in the likeness of My Saviour, neither did armstrong as he destroyed others by his false concepts.

to put off mortal - is an action to be taken today - and is knowing how to refuse the destroying tactics of the carnal minded thoughts that OPPOSE GOD and cause sin and destructions. This is because the carnal mind dwells in vanity and not the Kingdom of God.

a Believer is trained up to be loosed from this mindset as THE MASTER HAS NEED OF THEM.
they are His living sacrifices
they are His church not made with hands.

they are to resist death by understanding how to dwell in eternal life.

the life, in His incorruptable seed - grows and matures into the fullness of Spirit.
Messiah does the infilling and this infilling ONLY HAPPENS after each test/trial has been passed and some weakness [spot] is removed.
ITS LIKE A DIVINE DRY CLEANING - go in dirty get washed come out clean,

each weakness has to be DEALT WITH and a believer goes round the mountain, till that spot has been overcome.

now unless you know this dry cleaning programme there is NO way you will ever get the fullness of Spirit to overcome death - for death is a mind that opposes God.
ie
Armstrongism opposes God - so many people have written on this horrific man and his diabolical methods and mixed up theories of an utter apostate.

The battle is FOR LIFE.
Satan wages war on LIFERS.
they give him headaches as he knows his days are numbered.

now we come to an interesting fact................
it is Emmanuel WHO NOW HOLDS THE KEY OF DEATH not the devil.
so it is HIS DECISSION - not the devils.

get a relationship going and pray - so He will respond with “If you resist death, I will let you conquer it.”
“Saviour, because of Your conquest over death, I now resist all its onslaughts.
Please Saviour I am determined to conquer death immediately but in Your saving strength.
Saviour, make me victorious just like You Please.”

LAY HOLD of His Promises.
LAY HOLD of His plans over our life.

not too many do this.
but some do. I do.

**LucySmith** · 11-15-2011, 02:18 PM

Allen... how about we understand the impossible to understand OK.

Allen, no one knows were demons come from.
there is satan, the devil, the old dragon, the murderer from the beginning - 1 being 4 names - showing 4 character traits,
can we agree here?

ok.

between Gen v 1 and v 2 - some suggest a gap theory where chaos entered '' the it was good realm''
prior to the formation of Adam.
some suggest that a pre-adamic race existed prior too adam, they were destroyed.

when these people died, they became demons [some have suggested] and they are beings without bodies, who have all manner of weaknesses remaining and need to ''possess a body'' so these weaknesses are fed and multiplied.

their host can be anything, but humans are preferred - remember the 2000 demons that came out from that man and into the swine -
remember their conversation with the Saviour?

so let us say, this is correct [ but we dont know for sure] but let us suppose this is so, and so another being wants to exhibited and feed itself off a human host who will now display this unseen being chief characteristic.

so here we all are in 2011 ignorant of this fact, what fact?
that an ancient dead being wants to use us to fed its addictions and sins and comes into us as we open the door to it [in ignorance] by obeying their needs THAT WERE NEVER OUR OWN.

unwillingly we have all been deceived into losing our lives to other beings who we have allowed to control us because we are unaware of them and we think, we are the master of our own thinking patterns - but this is no so most of the time.

so to get this ''scene'' straight in our mind-so how about i suggest another angle ti view this game of deceptions being played out upon us all.

view 2
we are all birthed into vanity and the whole world is deceived so we are told.
We think we think for ourselves, but in reality, we think for another being who wants to live thru us and for us to MEET ITS NEEDS - and those needs destroy us, BUT we are all duped into thinking , its us who is doing our thinking.
Jesus said ''forgive them Father, for they know not what they do''?

really.

in vanity these men knew EXACTLY what they were doing.

but Jesus said ''FORGIVE THEM FATHER, THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THE DO'' meaning, they were totally ignorant of the full blown deception in the world and WHY THEY DID AS THEY DID.

NOW PAUL said '' my mind tells me dont do that, but i do it ''O WRETCHED MAN that i am'' [paraphrased]

so sin is within not because we sin BUT BECAUSE WE ALLOW sinfull beings to have power over us and we dont know it.

ie
a man, is all ok and goes and gambles and wins, soon a ''habit is formed'' to gamble - a viper has been allowed in [ by ignorance] and this viper now feeds its addiction off the poor man - who NEVER wanted to be this way anyways.
remember that 5 mins before he ''had this thought to gambled'' he had never thought of it.
THAT THOUGHT WAS PLANTED THERE and he could not refuse it.
THE THOUGHT HAD THE POWER TO CONTROL HIM.

THAT ANCIENT BEING choose a weak vessel and manipulated that man to do evil and stumbled that man and made his life a misery and a torment.
once in- that man was powerless.
and it is the same for all besetting sins. THE POWER game is a controlling game to do an ancient beings bidding.

5 mins before, that man HAD NOT considered gambling.

so, here we are, powerless because of ignorance and so when a ''suggestion comes'' we all know is evil/sin/not according to Jesus life = JESUS SAYS ''TAKE NO THOUGHT''.

now unless we are aware of these unseen beings and their goings on - what does it mean TAKE NO THOUGHT - BRING EACH THOUGHT CAPTIVE etc....

who does it?
not too many.
why?

for hardly anyone KNOWS about the unholy deception being carried on all over them and around them daily,
by whom?
by these unseen beings who want to feed off humans and use humans as hosts and the humans allow it because they are ignorant of ''satan's devices''.

unless these beings are controlled BY THE WORD OF GOD - meaning - IN TAKING NO THOUGHT, men die.
you see Allen if this is factual - a man cannot serve 2 masters.

a man cannot control himself, if he is ignorantly controlled by demons.
a man can only control himself IF he is SET FREE BY THE TRUTH.
Jesus said '' I COME TO SET THE CAPTIVES FREE''

IF A MAN SEES THE TRUTH he is well able to say NO and mean it.
Yes it does take practice but once truth is revealed THE ROAD INTO TRUE FREEDOM BEGINS. amen

while a man remains in deception, he is dead because HE IS NOT HIS OWN MAN but belongs to another [ however unwillingly]

now Allen, ponder upon it please.........

and remember NEXT TIME YOUR ARE TEMPTED say ''NO'' do not allow another to control you
And 'take no thought'' that is imparted into your mind that only serves demons interests BUT NOT YOUR OWN.
why not prove me wrong OK
YOU PROVE LUCY WRONG - learn to say NO and see for yourself.

something to think about.

**LucySmith** · 11-15-2011, 06:07 PM

cont -Allen - everywhere Jesus went He cast out demons..............

so i have heard- so do many pentecostal churches.
YET they remain apostate and die in sin like all men.

also we are told in Messiah's ministry, He released the brokenhearted, the sick, the captives - HE SET THEM FREE - we all know His marvellous ministry not repeated in the same likness.
kinda a 1 off.

we are told, about these things in the NT - and glimpse these acts - It says ''WHEN THE LORD SETS YOU FREE, YOU ARE FREE INDEED.'' Jhn 8 v 36.

LOOK AT THE #s please.

#8 - new beginnings, new life, resurrection life
#36 - the enemy.

so Jesus was setting men free from their deceptive enemies by imparting into them NEW RESURRECTION LIFE. - this is witnessed by the verse #s.

Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

the bible is rather skimpy on great descriptions i e.- ''He preached to the Multitudes and they were amazed at His preaching and they said '' no man preached as He did''.

so =MESSIAH TALKED TO PEOPLE AND WHILE HE TALKED HE TOLD THEM HOW TO BE FREE, AND THIS FREEDOM WOULD MAKE THEM NEW AND THIS NEWNESS, WOULD RESURRECTION THEM out FROM THE DEAD.

SO, what was the '''GUTS''' of His conversions that freed people.?

HE TOLD THEM THE TRUTH so SUDDENLY THEY BECAME FREE FROM THEIR FORMER DECEPTIONS.
THE YOKE OF SLAVERY was suddenly rippen off them as they SAW THE TRUTH OVER ALL THEIR SITUATIONS.

when the truth hits us, SNAP, our bondages are gone.
a release is so mighty.

so when i knew, as Messiah preached to me - I got set free, not all of a sudden, because it is a walk, and freedom has to be gotten used too. I knew i had a choice - 1] TO BE CONTROLLED by others i did not want 2] TO SERVE THE LORD, that i really wanted.

i have learnt after many hickups to serve HIM.

my mind is changing over to a ''sound mind'' rather than having a mind being filled with another beings acts and wants.

i am becoming MY OWN NEW MAN, by His grace.
THIS MEANS - my spiritual man - THE TRUE ME-IS ARISING and growing up into His fullness to be a part of His army.

here is a ''proclaimation'' the words proclaimed out that came from derek prince, who had good edification on spiritual warfare i had learnt 20+ yrs ago.
I had to learn this as an Overcomer's walk u see.
[rev 12 v 11]

i am slotted into ''the redeemed'' by His grace so i cannot boast I would not let the Father Go ''till He blessed me'' I gave HIM no choice as i was so utterly desperate to be changed.
Perhaps it was because i hated sin so much in myself i was so desperate to be free.

Proclamation for Overcomers
Let the redeemed say so...
My body is a temple for the Holy Spirit, redeemed,
cleansed, and sanctified by the blood of Jesus.

My members, the parts of my body, are instruments
of righteousness, yielded to God for His service and for His glory.

The devil has no place in me, no power over me, no unsettled

claims against me.

All has been settled by the blood of Jesus.

I overcome Satan by the blood of the Lamb and by the

word of my testimony and I do not love my life to the death.

My body is for the Lord and the Lord is for my body.

when we ''proclaim'' our destiny as the Spirit reveals, we co-opperate together and serve HIM rather than being deceived.
We LIVE THE TRANSITION out from the deceptive narrow path of slavery - A BELIEVER IS A HERO GENERATION, released because by faith, and love, and the truth being revealed and the light [knowledge] shining on all deception.

in saying all of this -rather than talk - it has to be lived in - this living in - is the testimony that overcomes
why?
because transformation takes place by the revelation of the a truth and remember THE TRUTH IS A PERSON.

Messiah comes in and preaches the Kingdom of Heaven into our Spiritman - he is Graphic and intense with His teaching, as there is NO compromise with sin.
the thing to remember is these other-beings called demons are already defeated.
it has to be understood, that sin causes a LEGAL right for demons to torment and inhabit.
sowing and reaping.

we are told to be ''as bold as a lion, a good soldier, to rise up in the Spirit, to scatter our enemies.

eating ''the Covenant of Salt'' with the Bridegroom, a believer, gets understanding, as it is an intimate ''sup''.
He speaks to a Believer as He did with Nicodemus.
He teaches how to avoid HOLES in our lives.

as example.....
in my shop i dont have any survelance , if someone wants to steal, that is between them and the lord, i trust in HIM to take care and allow a ''spirit of Excellence'' to dwell there.
i leave my home unlocked - if they want to steal my things = great who cares - i dont.
It seems as if this world fades away and nothing here really matters too much.
its the new man who is so important - and the old man - decreasing.

**LucySmith** · 11-15-2011, 06:42 PM

so Allen, we have now advanced to a harsh reality......

exposure time.
a man filled with lying spirits.

There was a man named Johannes Greber who was deeply involved with the occult.
He was the translator of the Jehovah's Witnesses' New World Translation Bible.

He openly states that he accomplished this through his wife who was a medium.

By using his wife and contacting a demon in the spirit world (which is totally unscriptural) he came up with a "doctrinal statement."

Although these are doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses, one can clearly see that many are what Herbert Armstrong taught as truth.

When we realize that HWA plagiarized doctrines from the JW's (and others), this should come as no surprise. (See chapter three of ESN's critical review of Mystery of the Ages for proof of this.)

Following are direct quotes from the demon that Johannes Greber contacted:
1.Jesus Christ is not God.
2.Jehovah only is God (the Father).
3.Jesus Christ is a created being.
4.Michael (the archangel) is a God.
5.Christ's body was not resurrected.
6.The body of Jesus was dematerialized.
7.There is no eternal hell.
8.Higher powers of Romans 13 are not the earthly governments.
9.The Bible is not inspired or dependable.
10.The Christian church today is not preaching the gospel.

While Herbert Armstrong did not teach every one of the above, we can spot the ones he copied from Jehovah's Witnesses.

When members started exiting Worldwide Church of God in 1995 as a result of the new doctrinal changes, they were very unclear about the Trinity due to HWA's teaching.
In the 1996 Plain Truth Joseph Tkach, Jr. says, "Gone is our long-held view of God as a family of multiple spirit beings into which humans may be born, replaced by a biblically accurate view of one God who exists eternally as three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." Notice that he avoided the word "Trinity." Many members were left in the dark about what he was talking about, and the WCG leadership never went into depth about the Holy Spirit being a Divine Being because they didn't want to have to confess that they had committed utter blasphemy in their view of God, nor did they want to deal with the enormity of it.

WCG headquarters, instead, started talking about "hypostasies," which was entirely confusing to the members.
They only spent two Sabbaths discussing what they called the "nature of God." On one headquarters' tape Dr. Stavrinides chastised members for being ignorant of Greek and stated that he had always understood that God was three beings in one
. That's laughable considering how he never wrote any articles in all the decades he was in the WCG about this (as he says) "important" issue.
If he knew the proper Greek all along, then why didn't he refute HWA's teachings about the Trinity being "pagan"? HWA was openly adamant about this. Even more interesting is that no member ever heard from this Greek "Dr." since that sermon!

Herbert Armstrong's teaching on the denial of the Trinity is very similar to what Jehovah's Witnesses taught. Read: The History of the Trinity: What the Watchtower Doesn't Want You to Know. [offsite link]

"Contrary to popular misconception, Constantine did not have a vote, nor did he participate in the arguments for or against the Trinity.
After the council of Nicaea, Constantine converted to Arianism. Soon after, anyone who opposed the Arian doctrine was exiled. … It is commonly taught that Constantine instituted the Trinity doctrine into the church. History reveals that the opposite is true. Constantine was baptized as an Arian. The Arians were anti-Trinitarians. The change in the church was not as the result of the Council of Nicaea. At the council, the historic position of the church was affirmed and written into a creed. It was after this council that historic Christianity was exiled and replaced with the Arian heresy."
(Excerpted from: Heresies and Heretics in the Early Church, p. 5, by Eddie Snipes, Exchanged Life Ministries)

If you need help in untwisting HWA's demonic doctrines, one place is Kevin Quick's website (former Jehovah's Witness), as he has an excellent book Reasoning with Jehovah's Witnesses that can be downloaded for free.

Kevin Quick's testimony is incredible. When he was a Jehovah's Witness, he did an intense Bible study to try to prove Christians wrong. The result? Kevin proved them right and he accepted Jesus as his personal Savior. His notes are very helpful because he first gives the JW's belief, or beliefs, then he asks questions concerning it and next quotes 10 or more scriptures for the answer. For instance, he clearly shows through Scripture the deity of Christ, which HWA and all cultic groups will deny. (See footnote #3 below which shows HWA taught the heretical belief that Jesus had "sinful flesh" and was not the eternal Son of God.)

When you say that you believe in God and deny the deity of Christ, you really do not believe in God, certainly not the God of the Bible. ~ J. Vernon McGee

Investigate every anti-Trinitarian quote from HWA and you will find that every quote is a misquote, which left out pertinent information that supported the Trinity. (For evidence that I John 5:7 is a part of Scripture, see The Epistle of 1st John - a Brief Commentary.) When you challenge the teachings that have been ingrained into your mind by HWA's twisted logic and just read the Scriptures, it all becomes quite clear.

I hope you will no longer doubt the deity of Jesus, nor the personage of the Holy Spirit.
I feel that as long as a person does not acknowledge this, he can never fully understand God. All religious cults deny the deity of Jesus, so that should tell you something right there.

We have only covered a sample of what Herbert Armstrong taught. For much more information on HWA's doctrines and how he perverted the Scriptures, see our list of books that are helpful in refuting Armstrong's doctrinal errors.

Prayers for Freedom From Spiritual Strongholds

The false teacher first departs from the truth, next he listens to and co-operates with "deluding spirits." This is how "doctrines of demons" are born. ~ Merrill F. Unger

By D. Williams and Lindsey
Exit & Support Network™
November 22, 2005
Last updated May 26, 2007

http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/mike_ep/exam/lies.htm

the lying spirit enters into the pews.
why?
because they have allowed themselves to be legally deceived for Messiah said ''follow me'' - no glory shall the Holy Spirit give another.

**ImAHebrew** · 11-15-2011, 06:58 PM

Diabolical Doctrine

Hi Lucy, would you not agree that the following statements are diabolical doctrines?

"Jesus Christ allowed His body to be literally RIPPED OPEN in hundreds of places until He could not even be recognized! He suffered this torture so you and I, through faith in His broken body for us, may have the FORGIVENESS of our PHYSICAL SINS — the healing of our bodies when we are sick — as well as the FORGIVENESS of our SPIRITUAL SINS by His shed blood!"

“How does Christ’s broken body make our healing possible? ... Simply by having PAID THE PENALTY IN OUR STEAD — THAT’S HOW!"

How could someone have such delusional beliefs? ImAHebrew

**LucySmith** · 11-15-2011, 08:13 PM

reading the bible......we find many things that seem ''odd'' to the carnal mind.

to whom it may concern.

isa 53
''But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed''.

Romans 4:25
'' He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification'''.

Hebrews 9:28
''so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him''.

1 Peter 2:24
''He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.''

Romans 4:25
He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

1 Corinthians 15:3
''For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures'',

Hebrews 5:8
'' Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered.''

Hebrews 9:28
''so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him''.

1 Peter 2:24
He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed.

1 Peter 2:25
For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Isaiah 53:11
''After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light [of life] and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities''

it is also interesting to note that in the OT 250,000 lambs were slaughtered and screaming, fear, blood and gore and smells everywhere - that is how repulsive sin is IN FATHER'S EYES.
people dont hate their sins enough and they dont have a ''FATHER'S EYES''.

http://www.keithhunt.com/Lambmany.html
sins is normal
sin is death
death is a friend
death is abnormal
sinning is abnormal living.

who is NORMAL - VERY FEW.

so for some diabolical facts shall we....................

Time Needed to Sacrifice Passover Lambs

How long would it take to slaughter a quarter-million lambs in
the restricted area of the Temple court? The slaughtering took
place in the so-called Court of the Priests and the court of
Israel. The COMBINED SURFACE area of the TWO courts was LESS than
10,000 square feet. 'The Court of Israel was 135 cubits long and
11 cubits wide. Next was the Court of the Priests of the SAME
SIZE as the Court of Israel
(W. F. Stinespring, 'The
Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible - Nashville, 1962, vol. 4,
p. 554).

Since a cubit corresponds to about 20 inches, each court was
approximately 225 feet long and 18 feet wide. Allowing 2 1/2
feet per person, the Court of Israel could accommodate at MOST a
HUNDRED Jews at a time up shoulder to shoulder with their lambs.

To estimate how long it would take for a hundred Jews to
sacrifice their paschal lambs in the Temple Court, one must
understand the elaborate ritual that was followed.
EDERSHEIM offers us an INFORMATIVE description of the ritual.

' Each division (group of Jews allowed in the Temple Court at one
time) must consist of not less than thirty persons (3x10, the
symbolic number of the Divine and of completeness). Immediately
the massive gates were closed behind them. The priests drew a
threefold blast from their silver trumpets when the Passover lamb
was slain. Altogether the scene was most impressive. All along
the Court up to the altar of burnt-offering priests stood in two
rows, the one holding the golden, the other, silver bowls. In
these the blood of the Paschal lambs, which each Israelite slew
for himself (as representative of his company at the Paschal
Supper), was caught up by a priest, who handed it to his
colleague, receiving back an empty bowl, and so the bowls with
the blood were passed up to the priest at the altar, who jerked
it in one jet at the base of the altar. while this was going on,
a most solemn hymn of praise was raised, the Levites leading
in song, and the offerers either repeating after them or merely
responding.....This service of song consisted of the so-called
Hallel, which comprises Psalms 113 to 118.....Next, the
sacrifices were hung up on hooks along the court, or laid on
staves which rested on the shoulders of two men (on Sabbath they
were not laid on staves), then flayed, the entrails taken out and
cleansed, and the inside fat separated, put in a dish, salted,
and placed on the fire of the altar of burnt-offering. This
completed the sacrifice.....the service being in each case
conducted in precisely the same manner' (Alfred Edersheim - The
Temple, Its Ministry and Services' - London 1874, pp. 191-193).

Assuming that it took ONLY TEN minutes to fulfil this elaborate
sacrificial ritual (a rather CONSERVATIVE estimate), means that
in one hour ONLY SIX groups of a hundred Jews could be admitted
in the Temple court. Thus ONLY SIX HUNDRED lambs could be slain
PER HOUR.....the slaying began earlier, at about 1: 30 p.m., and
lasted until about 6: 00 p.m., FEWER THAN 3,000 lambs could be
SLAIN in the Temple court in FOUR-AND-A-HALF HOURS. If the figure
given by Josephus of 256,500 lambs slaughtered as Passover in the
Temple Court is correct, IT WOULD TAKE OVER 417 HOURS (OVER 17
DAYS) NONSTOP to slaughter that many lambs. OBVIOUSLY this could
NOT be accomplished in ONE AFTERNOON.

cont...........

**LucySmith** · 11-15-2011, 08:16 PM

killing the lambs

cont...

We have reason to believe that the figures given by Josephus are
HIGHLY INFLATED.....SUPPOSING the ACTUAL number of lambs slain at
Passover was ONLY ONE TENTH of Josephus' figure, that is, ONLY
25,000, it would STILL TAKE OVER 40 HOURS to slaughter that many
lambs in the Temple court at the rate of SIX HUNDRED lambs per
HOUR.

OBVIOUSLY, again, even 25,000 lambs COULD NOT be slain in ONE
AFTERNOON......"

End of quote from Dr. Bacciocchi

Dr. Sam goes on to say that in the year Jesus died, they could
well have started to slay the Passover lambs the day BEFORE the
14th of Nisan, in other words on the 13th day of Nisan.

As to Josephus' computations of the population of Jerusalem and
surrounding area being as high as 3,000,000 at Passover time,
Edersheim has a foot note in his book "The Temple - Its Ministry
and Services" that says: "These computations, being derived from
official documents, can scarcely have been exaggerated. Indeed,
Josephus expressly guards himself against this charge."

Well for sure we know there would have been at least a FEW
HUNDRED THOUSAND people added to the population of Jerusalem at
Passover time, all coming from not only Palestine but from all
areas of the Roman Empire where Jews were living. If we go with
Dr. Sam's suggestion of about only 25,000 lambs slain in the
Temple, we are talking about 250,000 persons (using 10 persons to
share one lamb, being the overall average) that would have been
in Jerusalem that observed the Pharisees teaching of slaying the
lamb in the Temple and eating it at the beginning of the 15th of
Nisan. 250,000 is certainly conservative for the number Jews from
all parts of the Roman Empire, who were members of the Pharisees
sect, and who would have been in Jerusalem for any given
Passover.
Hence going with Dr. Sam's thought of 25,000 lambs slain in the
Temple at Passover time, is very realistic. And with what we have
found from Edersheim, on how the Passover lamb was ritually slain
in the Temple by the priests, and giving as Dr. Sam says 10
minutes for each lamb, they would have HAD to START slaying the
lambs at least by the 13th of Nisan......and remember that would
be NONE STOP, day and night, from the 13th day to about 6 p.m. on
the 14th day.

If we want to try and put the slaying of 25,000 lambs into the
time frame of 1 p.m. to 6 p.m. on the afternoon of the 14th day,
then they would have ritually slain 5,000 lambs AN HOUR, and you
can soon figure how many wound had to have been ritually slain
every minute...like running your Video or DVD movie on fast
speed, all the way through.

Given all these historic facts, we can now see that the idea of
saying the slaying of the lambs started at 3 p.m. on the
afternoon of the 14th of Nisan, the time that Christ is by
many said to have died, is just not founded on any solid
foundation at all, and is in truth a misguided idea that has
sprung up from misinformed people, who themselves were
probably parroting the misguided idea of some misinformed person
who was misinformed by not knowing the historical facts of the
whole numerics of the 14th Passover day, especially as taught and
physically PRACTICED by the Pharisees and the priests in the
Temple.

All this just simply points out even in more detail, how the
traditions of the Pharisees had got to the point where Jesus
stated what He did in Mark 7: 1-13. They had first started
a tradition of teaching the PRIESTS had to be a part of the
ritual of slaying the Passover lamb, then adding to that, the
tradition of saying the Passover lamb HAD TO BE SLAIN
in the TEMPLE.
Neither of the two above can be found to be required laws of the
Passover in the books of Moses or the first five books of your
Bible.

When we understand the Passover lambs were slain in small PRIVATE
groups (as Jesus and His 12 disciples did in Jesus' last Passover
on earth), at the BEGINNING of the 14th day, in the evening of
the 14th day of Nisan, WITHOUT having to go through ANY Temple
ritual in the Temple, that included having a priest perform part
of the ritual, THEN we could understand that Josephus may have
been very correct in stating that the population of Jerusalem on
the Passover day (the 14th) had in some years, reached as high as
3,000,000 people.

Of course I realize the counter argument could say that most did
not bother to go to the Temple and have their Passover lamb slain
in a ritual manner, but did it themselves at the beginning of the
15th. This of course would mean they rejected, at least in part,
the teaching of the Pharisees. Yet, even allowing for this
argument, Edersheim still says in his aforementioned book on the
Temple, that they moved up the evening sacrifice to about 1 p.m.
and then immediately started the Passover lamb slaying.

I guess you could argue that with all the private lambs slain in
small groups at the beginning of the 14th and beginning of the
15th day (if you followed the Pharisees teaching) and who ignored
anything to do with Temple ritual of slaying those lamds, you
could get over 200,000 lambs slain within a 24 hour period, BUT
that would not jive with Josephus claiming 256,000 plus lambs
were slain in the TEMPLE court ritual itself. Josephus may have
just mixed it all together and claimed it was all done in the
Temple court, which as Dr. Sam has noted could not possibly be
the case as it would have taken over 17 DAYS to kill that number
of lambs in the Temple ritual, as outlined by Edersheim.

This study is to merely show that the idea that the Passover lamb
slaying in the Temple started at 3 p.m. when many state (no
specific NT proof can be found - see my study called "How the NT
uses 'hours'") Jesus died (just as they killed the first lamb in
the Temple), has no basis in fact. Such an idea is a myth....may
sound real nice, as if fulfilling some OT prophecy or "typology"
type symbol (which is also not found in any part of the OT). But
it is still a myth nevertheless.

The truth of the matter is not always easy to admit, but as Jesus
said, "You shall know the truth and the truth will set you
free".....of course you must want to be set free, to be free.
Many are happy to remain in their deceived bondage. I hope you
are not one of them.

..................................

January 2003

----------------- as we can see, the Father's view of sin is horrendous.

so why sin?

simply stop.

Jesus said ''go and sin no more'' - is He a liar?

why not learn how to stop.

**ImAHebrew** · 11-15-2011, 08:34 PM

True Remission FROM sin.

Hi Lucy, here is a simple explanation for the difference between the “diabolical doctrine” of using Innocent Blood for the forgiveness of your sin, and the Truthful using of Innocent Blood for the remission of your sin.

In my last post I quoted the diabolical teachings that maintain the beating and punishing of Someone, will give sinners forgiveness, just by believing that the punished One was punished "in their stead." This is a doctrine of a devil, food offered to an idol. Yeshua said His food was to do Yahweh’s will and accomplish His work, but this food, this false belief, is a full course meal of delusionalism, something that is offered to an “idol.” This is something that Yeshua hates, just like He hated the doctrine of the Nicolaitans. Substitutionalism is a false doctrine, and to believe that the Innocent One and Just One is required by Elohim’s justice to die in the place of sinners, is just plain nonsense. What parent would punish their only good child just so they could be able to forgive their disobedient children? Its nonsense and it is a doctrine of a demon.

So, how can the shedding of Innocent Blood redeem or bring about the remission of sin? It is written that the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sin. Why is that? The Jews looked at the shedding of the blood of those animals EXACTLY the same way as the delusional Christians look at the shedding of “Jesus’” blood. They thought that if you just shed the blood of that animal in their stead, Elohim would forgive them, and then they could REMAIN in their sin. All they had to do was purchase or give another animal to “die in their stead,” and they would not stop sinning (just sacrifice another animal). There was no motivation to have their sins “taken away” in their lives, for what value or cost was the shedding of that animal’s blood. To them it was only economics, there was no real motivation for their sin to be removed, and this is why it was impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to “take away” sin.

Not so with the Blood of Yeshua. When a sinner realizes that their sin CAUSED the shedding of His Blood, His suffering and death, they are then motivated to “turn from their sin.” Their sin is “taken away.” They are no longer dwelling in active sin, and their sin now goes INTO remission. Think along the lines of how cancer goes INTO remission, it's stil there, but no longer actively killing the person. In the same way, the shedding of His Blood CLEANSES you FROM your sin, and your sin goes INTO remission. You no longer REMAIN in SIN; you are CLEANSED from that why of life, to now SERVE the Living Elohim. This is how Yeshua’s Blood saves you and TAKES AWAY your sin. Only someone who hates Him would continue IN their sin, shedding His Blood.

Now, concerning forgiveness, YES, once a sinner repents, and turns FROM their sin, NONE of their former sins are remembered:

Eze 33:14-16 "But when I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and he turns from his sin and practices justice and righteousness, (15) if a wicked man restores a pledge, pays back what he has taken by robbery, walks by the statutes which ensure life without committing iniquity, he shall surely live; he shall not die. (16) "None of his sins that he has committed will be remembered against him. He has practiced justice and righteousness; he shall surely live.”

Yeshua’s Blood was shed so that sinners would repent and TURN from their sin, and in doing so, they receive forgiveness, non of their former sins are remembered. So please, do not believe the delusional doctrine that teaches “Jesus” died in your stead so that “God” could forgive you. This is a lie and should no longer be believed. ImAHebrew

P.S. Next we will speak about the true meaning of Yeshua's Blood, and how you have LIFE in IT.

**LucySmith** · 11-15-2011, 08:46 PM

the truth of the situation........................

not from man's ideas or theories but from the NT.

-------------------------------------

DEATH IS ABOLISHED!

"Verily verily I say unto you if a man
keep my saying, he shall never see
death! Jn.8:51.
"He that believeth in
me though he were dead yet shall he
live; whosoever liveth and believeth in
me shall never die!" Jn.11:25
These few
statements of Jesus have been brushed
aside constantly by theologians to refer
only to spiritual death in lake of fire.
However considering the whole context of
the discussions taking place while those
utterances were made, it portrayed
clearly that Chist was talking about
physical death. He also came back in
the book of Revelation 2 & 3 to declare
that He has the keys of death and of
hell! It must be pointed out that it is
the devil that kills men as it is
written: "that He might destroy he that
has the power of death even the
devil".(Heb.2:14) When Christ died on
the cross and rose again "He led
captivity captive"(Ephe.4:8) He has
abolished death! (2 Timothy 1:10) In
analogy, when the slave trade was
abolished in the world by higher
authority in earlier century, some
stubborn slave masters would not let go
of their slaves. If the slaves
revolted, the slave master would have no
government agent to come to his aid but
many slaves were scared of their master
and did not. The same similar thing is
going on in the world today. Since
Christ declared that He has saved man
from sin, only few are coming forward
and claiming the salvation Jesus
purchased for us on the cross..."By His
blood we are redeemed". Since Christ
declared that He has healed our
sicknesses, even fewer are claiming the
divine healing of Jesus. "By whose
stripes ye were healed". since Christ
declared that He has abolished death,
practically none has come forward to
claim this liberty from physical death!
Only believe and profess it! The Just
shall live by faith! You ask me why
multitudes will not believe for
salvation to live above sin ....because
they live by sight, seeing the whole
world in sin, they profess "we are all
sinners" so no one can be free from sin
they said. It takes revelation from
Jesus for them to be saved -- by
preaching of the gospel of salvation.
You ask me again why multitudes, even
church folks, don't believe in divine
healing...? unbelief! They live by
sight -- seeing multitudes around them
afflicted by the slave masters with
various diseases, they get scared and
will not claim such promise of God for
their healing. It also takes revelation
from Jesus for the few believers that
believe in divine healing for them to
resist the slave masters that torment
mankind with diseases. Understand me
clearly! Believing in divine healing
does not mean the devils will not
attack, but the devils are more scared
to lay their hands on them that believe
this; because when we insisted by
confessing to the devil that Christ's
promise is forever true, God's angels
will smite the devil before long if he
did not remove his filthy hand. Since
the devils are thieves and robbers they
will still try but when we stand our
guard believing and claiming our right
that Christ has given us our peace and
our good health, the devils have to
flee.

The same principle works against death,
and this is the age during which we can
put the devil to shame as it is written
"the last enemy to be destroyed is
death!" (1 Cor.15:26) This is the age
when Christ is coming soon and we only
need to resist the enemy for few more
years till Christ come in rapture. I
strongly believe "Enoch walked with God"
and he was not for the Lord took him.
The Lord took him because it was not yet
time for immortal men to inhabit this
planet earth. Else he would have been
around till now. Elijah also got enough
power to resist every attempt of death
upon his life by calling fire upon
enemies before he left this planet.
Christ now is saying "verily verily i
say unto you if a man keep my saying he
shall never see death".Jn.8:51. This is
the faith of the end time, rapturing
faith -- the climax! Satan will resist
it just as he resisted salvation, and
healing by many means, to the extent of
even using some preachers to preach
against it, and whole denominations
kicking against it; so shall he resist
this declaration of faith against death
to the extent of killing a few to
terrify the others from believing like
that; but "the FEARFUL and unbelieving
.... and all liars shall have their part
in the lake which burneth with fire and
brimstone which is the second death!"
(Rev.21: ) Christ has defeated the devil
2000 years ago and He has given the
victory to the saints. Lo, He
saith:"Fear not, i am the first and the
last. I am He that liveth and was dead,
and behold i am alive for ever more,
amen; and have the keys of hell and of
death"(Rev.1:17). Yea, the just shall
live by faith! Christ has abolished
death! Believe it, claim it, that you
shall live till Christ comes! Don't give
in your will to death -- even on sick-
bed. Scientists know that strong will
to live has taken a lot of people off
death bed, whereas a lot of believers
just give in to death hoping to prefer
Paradise. I don't blame those whose
body has weakened so much due to old
age prefering to put away the old
tabernacle that no longer function as it
ought, but when Christ saith "if a man
KEEP my sayings", the whole package is
contained in the "sayings", to keep the
body from decaying through old age or
disease, to rejuvenate the body
constantly and keep alive from attacks
from the enemy. Only an Unbeliever will
think Christ cannot do these things!
Part of the "sayings" are holiness,
fasting, divine health which means
eating right in wisdom etc. "If a man
keep my sayings, he shall never see
death!" He is more than able! He is
coming soon! Foot-note: When Adam and
Eve sinned in the garden of Eden, we all
know that from thence sin,sickness and
death came upon human race. We also
know that When Jesus Christ died on the
cross, our sins are forgiven. If we then
have been washed by his blood, it should
follow that sickness and death should be
removed since they are the curse of
disobedience. If we believe that when
Christ said "It is finished" on the
cross our redemption is completed we
ought to believe that He abolished death
also --- to him that believeth! As we
claim our healing by confessing positive
promises of God and believing them
concerning any sickness ("By His stripes
we are healed" Isa.53) we also have to
claim our victory over death. (Christ
"has abolished death and has brought
life and immortality to light through
the gospel", 2Tim.1:10).

from
gospeldistribution.com

while preaching is good - HEARING IS BETTER AND ONCE U HAVE HEARD ''death has been abolished'' out from the Saviour's lips for yourself nothing shall take you back to those lying spirits of all brand name religions and its people.

nothing shall move a believer SIDEWAYS - they become like an Elijah in type [notice i said IN type only] because Elijah would not have anyone PULL HIM OFF HIS MOUNTAIN TOP.

**LucySmith** · 11-15-2011, 08:56 PM

the truth of the situation........................

not from man's ideas or theories but from the NT.

-------------------------------------

DEATH IS ABOLISHED!

"Verily verily I say unto you if a man
keep my saying, he shall never see
death! Jn.8:51.
"He that believeth in
me though he were dead yet shall he
live; whosoever liveth and believeth in
me shall never die!" Jn.11:25
These few
statements of Jesus have been brushed
aside constantly by theologians to refer
only to spiritual death in lake of fire.
However considering the whole context of
the discussions taking place while those
utterances were made, it portrayed
clearly that Chist was talking about
physical death. He also came back in
the book of Revelation 2 & 3 to declare
that He has the keys of death and of
hell! It must be pointed out that it is
the devil that kills men as it is
written: "that He might destroy he that
has the power of death even the
devil".(Heb.2:14) When Christ died on
the cross and rose again "He led
captivity captive"(Ephe.4:8) He has
abolished death! (2 Timothy 1:10) In
analogy, when the slave trade was
abolished in the world by higher
authority in earlier century, some
stubborn slave masters would not let go
of their slaves. If the slaves
revolted, the slave master would have no
government agent to come to his aid but
many slaves were scared of their master
and did not. The same similar thing is
going on in the world today. Since
Christ declared that He has saved man
from sin, only few are coming forward
and claiming the salvation Jesus
purchased for us on the cross..."By His
blood we are redeemed". Since Christ
declared that He has healed our
sicknesses, even fewer are claiming the
divine healing of Jesus. "By whose
stripes ye were healed". since Christ
declared that He has abolished death,
practically none has come forward to
claim this liberty from physical death!
Only believe and profess it! The Just
shall live by faith! You ask me why
multitudes will not believe for
salvation to live above sin ....because
they live by sight, seeing the whole
world in sin, they profess "we are all
sinners" so no one can be free from sin
they said. It takes revelation from
Jesus for them to be saved -- by
preaching of the gospel of salvation.
You ask me again why multitudes, even
church folks, don't believe in divine
healing...? unbelief! They live by
sight -- seeing multitudes around them
afflicted by the slave masters with
various diseases, they get scared and
will not claim such promise of God for
their healing. It also takes revelation
from Jesus for the few believers that
believe in divine healing for them to
resist the slave masters that torment
mankind with diseases. Understand me
clearly! Believing in divine healing
does not mean the devils will not
attack, but the devils are more scared
to lay their hands on them that believe
this; because when we insisted by
confessing to the devil that Christ's
promise is forever true, God's angels
will smite the devil before long if he
did not remove his filthy hand. Since
the devils are thieves and robbers they
will still try but when we stand our
guard believing and claiming our right
that Christ has given us our peace and
our good health, the devils have to
flee.

The same principle works against death,
and this is the age during which we can
put the devil to shame as it is written
"the last enemy to be destroyed is
death!" (1 Cor.15:26) This is the age
when Christ is coming soon and we only
need to resist the enemy for few more
years till Christ come in rapture. I
strongly believe "Enoch walked with God"
and he was not for the Lord took him.
The Lord took him because it was not yet
time for immortal men to inhabit this
planet earth. Else he would have been
around till now. Elijah also got enough
power to resist every attempt of death
upon his life by calling fire upon
enemies before he left this planet.
Christ now is saying "verily verily i
say unto you if a man keep my saying he
shall never see death".Jn.8:51. This is
the faith of the end time, rapturing
faith -- the climax! Satan will resist
it just as he resisted salvation, and
healing by many means, to the extent of
even using some preachers to preach
against it, and whole denominations
kicking against it; so shall he resist
this declaration of faith against death
to the extent of killing a few to
terrify the others from believing like
that; but "the FEARFUL and unbelieving
.... and all liars shall have their part
in the lake which burneth with fire and
brimstone which is the second death!"
(Rev.21: ) Christ has defeated the devil
2000 years ago and He has given the
victory to the saints. Lo, He
saith:"Fear not, i am the first and the
last. I am He that liveth and was dead,
and behold i am alive for ever more,
amen; and have the keys of hell and of
death"(Rev.1:17). Yea, the just shall
live by faith! Christ has abolished
death! Believe it, claim it, that you
shall live till Christ comes! Don't give
in your will to death -- even on sick-
bed. Scientists know that strong will
to live has taken a lot of people off
death bed, whereas a lot of believers
just give in to death hoping to prefer
Paradise. I don't blame those whose
body has weakened so much due to old
age prefering to put away the old
tabernacle that no longer function as it
ought, but when Christ saith "if a man
KEEP my sayings", the whole package is
contained in the "sayings", to keep the
body from decaying through old age or
disease, to rejuvenate the body
constantly and keep alive from attacks
from the enemy. Only an Unbeliever will
think Christ cannot do these things!
Part of the "sayings" are holiness,
fasting, divine health which means
eating right in wisdom etc. "If a man
keep my sayings, he shall never see
death!" He is more than able! He is
coming soon! Foot-note: When Adam and
Eve sinned in the garden of Eden, we all
know that from thence sin,sickness and
death came upon human race. We also
know that When Jesus Christ died on the
cross, our sins are forgiven. If we then
have been washed by his blood, it should
follow that sickness and death should be
removed since they are the curse of
disobedience. If we believe that when
Christ said "It is finished" on the
cross our redemption is completed we
ought to believe that He abolished death
also --- to him that believeth! As we
claim our healing by confessing positive
promises of God and believing them
concerning any sickness ("By His stripes
we are healed" Isa.53) we also have to
claim our victory over death. (Christ
"has abolished death and has brought
life and immortality to light through
the gospel", 2Tim.1:10).

from
gospeldistribution.com

**LucySmith** · 11-15-2011, 09:27 PM

it is very hard to believe anyone would write this......

from IAH
''Lucy, it is very clear in the Scriptures, the shedding of innocent blood ONLY brings condemnation and judgment, not forgiveness or justification.

So you really need to explain why your views of shedding innocent blood differ so much from what the Word of Elohim says''. ImAHebrew'

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hang on.... is my eyes seeing this right?
do i need glasses?

how is it possible with so many NT verses saying the opposite?
how can a person LIE and say ''my views'' oppose the NT?
how could any man DENY the NT and the work of the Messiah?
and then ''tell you'' about LIFE?
really.............................
ummm.
is this madness?
i feel like puking.

''One could rightfully view Herbert Armstrong as the heretic’s heretic because
his teachings pulled from Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormonism, Seventh-Day Adventists,
Christian Scientists, Judaism, Ebionites, and many others.
Investigation of his beliefs
show a very close comparison to the heresy of dynamic monarchianism, or simply,
Adoptionism''.[from the site below]

therefore everything this religious pervert thinks is perverted because he choose to be controlled by a perverted being.
so if i believe his works - i become perverted.
a known pervert = perverted into a perversion of the testiments.

see how it works?
and what is so true is this is exactly what happened.
he used man's theories and jumbled them together into chaos and chopped and changed his views.
this is UNSTABLE.

**LucySmith** · 11-16-2011, 02:54 AM

what Jesus did for us...verses sited..................just the facts

Eph. 5:1-2,
"Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children;
2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you, and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma."

*immitators of God
* walk in love.
* gave Himself up for us
* offering as a sacrifice.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Gal. 1:4,
"who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us out of this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father."
* gave Himself for our sins
* to deliver us from this evil age.
---------------------------------------------------------------

1 Cor. 15:3,
"For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures."
* delivered you
* Christ died for our sins
* according to the scriptures.
--------------------------------------------------------------

1 Pet. 3:18,
"For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit."
* Christ also died for sins once and for all
* the just for the unjust
* bring us to God
--------------------------------------------------------------

2 Cor. 5:21,
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
* He made Him, who had NO sin - to BE SIN ON OUR BEHALF.
* THAT WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN HIM.
--------------------------------------------------------------

Rom. 4:25,
"He who was delivered up because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification."
* He who was delivered up because of our transgressions
* raised up because of our justification.,
--------------------------------------------------------------

Rom. 3:25,
"whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed."
--------------------------------------------------------------

1 John 2:2,
"and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world."
* an propitiation for our sins
* not only ours but the whole world.
--------------------------------------------------------------
propitiation means = transitive verb

: to gain or regain the favor or goodwill of
: appease.
so i could write ''Jesus Himself regained the goodwill for our sin.

"properly signifies the removal of wrath by the offering of a gift."
Propitiation properly deals with the wrath of God.
The wrath of God is due to the legal requirements of punishing the sinner.

Jesus is the one who fulfilled the law and never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22).
But, he bore our sins in his body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24)
and became sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21) thereby suffering the penalty of sin, which is death.''

i love the simplicity of Christ - a little child can understand His word
2 witnesses is all i need to establish truth but here is 3

Jesus is the one who fulfilled the law and never sinned (1 Pet. 2:22).

But, he bore our sins in his body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24)

and became sin on our behalf (2 Cor. 5:21) thereby suffering the penalty of sin, which is death.''

is this simple?
is this easy to understand?

i believe these verses and NO man however sincere shall change my mind to what i read and understand here in the word of God.
i do believe these verses show in the most simpliest terms - the result of the cross.
how could anyone form ''some alternative views''

how is this possible?

so here is what i think..........................................
if you worked for satan, wouldnt you teach an opposing view, so that people who ''believed YOUR VIEW'' would be duped and deceived?
angels of light, are not a dragon with horns and all scarey but very nice people.

ok here is a list of ''what Jesus did''.
According to Scripture, Jesus Died For ...

Submitted by Kevin Jackson on Mon, 02/02/2009 - 8:30am
Atonement
Bible Passages

http://evangelicalarminians.org/acco...jesus-died-for
According to scripture, Jesus died for ...

Us all (Isaiah 53:6)
His people (Matthew 1:21)
All who are weary (Matthew 11:28)
Many (Matthew 20:28)
His people (Luke 1:68)
All the people (Luke 2:10)
The lost (Luke 19:10)
All who receive him (John 1:12)
The world (John 1:29)
Everyone who believes (John 3:15)
The world (John 3:16)
The world (John 3:17)
Whoever believes (John 3:18)
Whoever believes (John 3:36)
The world (John 4:42)
Whoever hears and believes (John 5:24)
The world (John 6:33)
He who comes and believes (John 6:35)
He who believes (John 6:47)
The world (John 6:51)
The sheep (John 10:7)
The sheep (John 10:11)
The sheep (John 10:15)
My sheep (John 10:27)
He who believes (John 11:25)
The Jewish nation (John 11:51)
The scattered children of God (John 11:52)
His friends (John 15:13)
Everyone who calls on the Lord (Acts 2:21)
The Church of God (Acts 20:28)
The ungodly (Romans 5:6)
Sinners (Romans 5:8)
God's enemies (Romans 5:10)
Many (Romans 5:15)
All Men (Romans 5:18)
Your brother (Romans 14:15)
The weak brother (1 Corinthians 8:11)
All (2 Corinthians 5:14)
All (2 Corintihans 5:15)
The world (2 Cor 5:19)
Paul (Galations 2:20)
The Church (Ephesians 5:25)
All men (1 Timothy 2:6)
All men, especially those who believe (1 Timothy 4:10)
All men (Titus 2:11)
Everyone (Hebrews 2:9)
Many people (Hebrews 9:28)
The unrighteous (1 Peter 3:18)
False prophets (2 Peter 2:1)
Us, and the whole world (1 John 2:2)
The world (1 John 4:14)

Isaiah 53 v6

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

is this not so simple to comprehend.?

Matthew 1:21

21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[a] because he will save his people from their sins.”

how could you alter the words of the Holy Spirit and make them mean something else?

Matthew 20:28

28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

do you understand this simple explanation?

Luke 1:68

68 “Praise be to the Lord, the God of Israel,
because he has come to his people and redeemed them.

**ImAHebrew** · 11-16-2011, 04:52 AM

True Remission OR False Substutitionalism

Hi Lucy, what you fail to realize is that EVERYONE of the Scriptures you quote in trying to present a substitutional forgiveness, can be explained TRUTHFULLY, as the actual removing of your sin. You preach being made into the "image" of Christ, and that is the TRUTH. He died to CHANGE you INTO what He is, He didn't die so that He could be punished in your stead, allowing you to remain IN sin with you continuing to ask "God" to forgive you based upon the shedding of His blood. That's delusional nonsense. IF you are CONFORMED INTO His image, BY the Sacrifice of Himself, through the shedding of His Innocent Blood, then doesn't His Sacrifice BECOME a "sweet aroma." Any process that can change a sinner INTO the "image" of Christ, is a sweet aroma, and even ALL the Angels of Heaven rejoice when just ONE sinner turns from their sin:

Luk 15:10 "In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of Elohim over one sinner who repents."

But no amount of Innocent Blood will save the one who has repented, and then FALLS BACK into deliberate sin:

Heb 6:4-6 For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, (5) and have tasted the good word of Elohim and the powers of the age to come, (6) and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of Elohim and put Him to open shame.

Can you see Lucy? A sinner who has repented and been enlightened to the Spiritual side of Elohim's Word, if they fall back INTO their old life of sin so that they would have to come again to repentance, they are re-crucifying Yeshua afresh and re-shedding His Blood. This puts Him to open shame. Can't you see this.

Heb 10:24-29 and let us consider how to stimulate one another to love and good deeds, (25) not forsaking our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near. (26) For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, (27) but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES. (28) Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. (29) How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of Elohim, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

Yeshua's Innocent Blood was shed so that you would STOP sinning. No more "willful" sin, for IF you have "willful" sin, you regard His Innocent Blood as something that is UNCLEAN. And it would have been better for you to NEVER have known the Truth, than for you to have known it and then TURN BACK INTO a life of sin:

2Pe 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Master and Savior Yeshua Messiah, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. (21) For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. (22) It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."

Yeshua's Innocent Blood was shed so that YOU would be CLEANSED from YOUR sin, and if AFTER coming INTO the knowledge of this process, you again become entangled in the defilement of sin, the last state is worse than the first. Yeshua said that he who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of Him. Those who look back and return to a life of sin are not worthy to receive life, and no amount of Innocent Blood shed "in their stead" will save them. This is the Truth Lucy. ImAHebrew

**ImAHebrew** · 11-16-2011, 05:04 AM

Blood of the Covenant

Hi Lucy, do you have any understanding or knowledge about the "blood of the covenant." What is the "blood of the covenant?" ImAHebrew

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here is IAH's belief..........................so i am supposed to believed this

here is IAH's belief..........................so i am supposed to believed this

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