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  • sabbath keeping - introduced by man......

    to allen


    Ex 20:8
    8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

    For years, I agonized over the above word of truth. All my teachers told me that I did not need to obey this commandment.

    They used the Apostle Paul to tell me that I was not under the Law, but then I clearly heard this teaching of Yahushua through the Worldwide Church of God:

    i feel so sad for your utter deception Allen - the spirit was telling u the truth but the pervert man convinced you to keep the law.
    well behind the scenes we find the truth.
    how sad you have wasted all those years doing evil....................


    http://www.reformation.com/CSA/armstrong1.htm

    herbert and dotty......




    During those years, besides taking her on supposedly church or ministry-related business trips, it was not uncommon for Herbert to take Dorothy out dancing on Friday nights. On one such occasion she asked him if he ever worried that one of his church members would see them. He told her no, because, in effect, they were too stupid to be out dancing on Friday night and that he had them well-trained (in keeping the Friday sunset to Saturday sunset Sabbath).

    during those years, herbert was laughing at his tamed suckers.........................

    He told her no, because, in effect, they were too stupid to be out dancing on Friday night and that he had them well-trained (in keeping the Friday sunset to Saturday sunset Sabbath).


    TOO STUPID......
    WELL TRAINED....

  • #2
    Dorothy has stated that her sexual relationship with her father continued into the early forties. In 1943 Herbert officiated at the ceremony in which Dorothy was married to Vern Mattson, who soon afterward was to serve overseas in the U.S. Marines. We have no information that the incestuous relationship continued beyond that point. However, Dorothy has related to friends how, around the time of her engagement, Herbert told her that her marriage need not put an end to their own special relationship.

    Shortly after Vern's discharge from the military, Herbert was able to provide him with employment within his growing organization. Although Dorothy drifted away from her father's church by around 1951, Vern continued his association. He was the organization's business manager before the Albert Portune era.

    What caused him to leave the Armstrong corporation? Was it then that he discovered the awful truth about his wife and father-in-law? The following quote taken from the transcript of one HWA deposition provides a clue (Ramona's lawyer is asking about Dorothy's house being sold to the WCG):

    Q Did she sell it to the church?

    MR BROWNE: Objected to as being irrelevant and immaterial and constitutionally impermissible. Transactions between third parties and the church are none of anyone's business in this particular case and instruct you not to answer.

    THE WITNESS: I refuse to answer.

    MR DECKTER: Okay. Where did you provide her with living accommodations?

    A. I provided her with living accommodations ever since, on and off ever since - Now, wait a minute until I think of the year. Let's see, I don't know. Began back in the 1950's, ever since Vern Mattson resigned from being business manager of the church.

    Before leaving the subject, one other deposition excerpt is worth quoting. Ramona's lawyer was asking HWA some background questions concerning his health:

    Q And do you suffer from any other diseases or chronic problems other than what we've discussed?

    A Not that I know of.... I have had difficulty sleeping for the last, oh, let me see, ever since 1933.

    That was the year HWA began abusing his own daughter. Is it any wonder he hasn't slept well since? (From Ambassador Report, AR27, April 1984, pp. 7-8.)

    The allegations of incest are true! These were not momentary slips in which Mr Armstrong fell in sin and later repented. He didn't repent. He knew he had done wrong, but he only tried to cover it up and hide the truth from the church. HWA was a highly deceitful and clever individual who hoodwinked most in the church to give the impression he was a man of God. Even he himself was deceived about himself. (The wicked don't know they are wicked - Jer 17:9.)
    all publically recorded.....
    http://www.reformation.com/CSA/armstrong1.htm

    Comment


    • #3
      http://web.archive.org/web/199911122.../Article31.htm


      The example of Herbert Armstrong proves that. He was a deceiver of the first order! I have explained in previous articles [see footnote 1] how he deceived the minds of his followers in such a way that they looked to HIM. He diverted their attention away from Christ and caused them to listen to, heed, adore, and follow HWA! It all happened so subtly! No one in the Worldwide Church of God was really aware of the subtlety of this transfer of loyalties and of the depth of his guile until drastic things happened which opened their eyes.

      The late Joseph Tkach was equally devious. He lied to the church to bolster his self-image, so that he could get the people to follow him, just like his predecessor. He put on a good front. He seemed a very nice man. You would think very highly of him from meeting him. But his private life was far from exemplary. He had an adulterous relationship with his secretary, and the several lies which he palmed off on the church members were never withdrawn. He was happy for the people in his spiritual domain to believe lies!

      He introduced new teachings into the church with an alacrity that has amazed the evangelical sector of Christendom. WHY he did this has been explained by Jacob I Myers in Tkach's Big Heresy. Tkach did not tell you, as a WCG member, the real reasons for these changes. He wouldn't want you to know - even if he understood his own psychology! Probably he himself could not see what was really motivating him! A deceived man does not know he is deceived. When he is in tune with the devil because of unrepented sin in his life, the devil uses him as his instrument. This is what happened to HWA, to Jo Tkach, and is still continuing with the present church leader, Jo Tkach junior!

      In the context of the WCG, it is why Jesus warned: Beware that no man deceives you! Leaders can be the biggest deceivers! Paul expanded this caveat to the elders at Ephesus:

      For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God [1 - see below]. Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers [2 & 3], to shepherd the church of God [3] which He purchased with His own blood. For I know this that after my departing savage wolves will come in among you [4], not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves [5] (Acts 20:27-30, NKJV).
      It is easy for the devil to get your mind. He knows how to do it, and he can do it wholesale through church organisations. He simply gets the leaders hooked in some way, and then he has managed, with the minimum of fuss and effort, to get most of the people deluded as well!

      Analysing WCG Deceit
      Take a closer look at that text from Acts again. The number in square brackets in the text above refers to the part of the text immediately preceding it. Several weaknesses in the church are revealed here:

      1. Paul dared to preach the WHOLE counsel of God, but not all will do that. It is more expedient for church leaders to tone down the truth and only preach or emphasise part of it. This leads to apostasy. It is what is taking place wholesale now in the WCG. Yet, the leaders call the heresies "new truth"! They are old lies!!

      2. It is the Holy Spirit which makes men ministers, not a decision from a hierarchy with the subsequent laying on of hands for "higher ministerial approval". That is all a sham. Ordination should be from God, not from men.
      3. The ministers are supposed to be overseers NOT overlords! (Matt 20:25,26.) They should be shepherds, watching over their flocks in love and genuine spiritual care.

      The real meaning of the term "minister" has become lost in the WCG. Service for the spiritual well-being of members has been substituted with lordship of ministers OVER members. When a servant serves, he is not above those whom he serves. This concept is entirely lost in the WCG, where a Babylonian concept of hierarchic autocracy is in place. God tells you to COME OUT of everything that is contaminated by the Babylonian Mother of Harlots (Rev 18:4).

      4. Savage wolves have taken over the flock, and devour it. Physically, nothing seems wrong. You can't see a devouring wolf. His devastation is created in your mind - in the spiritual dimension. And because it is shrouded by deception, the devouring nature of his work is unseen to those who fall prey to him.

      These tools of the devil come as angels of light (2 Cor 11:13-15). They appear OK. In fact, they even appear good! You naturally believe them and are inclined to follow them! You would even obey their injunctions not to listen to those who are trying to warn you about them. They will label them "dissidents" and paint the ones God is using in a negative light.

      All this is happening right now in the WCG! Jesus' words are very up to date!

      5. Finally, there is the aspect of these deceivers having the effect of buying you. They draw away your mind in favour of them. They draw away your loyalty to Christ, and cause you to replace it with an inferior substitute - a human loyalty to a man - in this case, to Joseph Tkach!

      Drawing Away Your Mind
      "Drawing away disciples after themselves" is a major problem in the church. It was what was emphas- ised time and again in WCG circles. "Submit to Church authority" was the WCG swan-song which kept the people in line. It maintained "law and order". But the WCG became like a police state, where members lost the freedom to think for themselves. They became subservient to their masters, their overlords, who determined what they were to believe, how they were to behave, and what spiritual direction they were to take. Many members feared to "transgress" the authority of their "ministerial" overlords!

      Effectively, members were following and obeying men, not God! Through clever psychology, coercion, fear and deceit, members were induced into this human subservience, and robbed of true spirituality which comes from following the lead of the Spirit directly (Rom 8:14).

      None of this is sanctioned by Jesus, who meant ministers to be shepherds leading the sheep up front as spiritual examples, not by driving them with coercion from behind. This beautiful true shepherding analogy is lost on most today because farming techniques are so different in the west.

      If you are in the WCG you probably think I am overstating it by contending that all this is the result of devious and deceitful church leaders.

      If so, let me ask you something.

      Do you think it is right to follow a man who lies?

      Do you think it is right to follow a man who allows another minister to sleep with his wife in return for favours of promotion?

      Do you think it is pleasing to God for you to give such men your unfailing trust and loyalty? And, do you think they deserve to have your tithe while they are doing Satan's work?

      If you answer "yes" to any of those questions, you are mindless or seriously deluded!

      All those heinous sins - and more - have been perpetrated by Joseph Tkach in his bid to gain domination and leadership of the WCG. No wonder he is dead!

      As for his son, the present Joseph Tkach, he has no right to assume headship over the WCG. If the office of head over a church were scriptural - which it is not, because Jesus is meant to be Head (Eph 1:22) - nepotism is nowhere sanctioned in the Bible. Ministers such as apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers should be appointed by God, not by other men. You can tell when a man is appointed by God. His works declare the authenticity of his appointment (2 Cor 12:12; Matt 7:15).

      Just in case I am not making myself plain _ JOSEPH TKACH HAS NO DIVINE RIGHT TO RULE OVER THE WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD!

      The means he uses to retain his position are riddled with deviousness and deceit. It is unavoidable for him. It's the way the machine operates. Armstrong set it in motion, and the 'animal' has not been tamed.

      I mentioned in The Deceitfulness of HWA that he plagiarised the works of others, took the information he wanted for his own devious ends, and gave no credit to his source.

      The WCG leadership has done the same with our material - the parts it wants to use.

      I once received a letter from a lady in California, close the church's HQ. She asked me some loaded questions about tithing at a time when the WCG was in a state of flux and felt a great need to modify its teaching. I suspected that this person was not writing for their own benefit, but was a 'plant'. She had been put up to it by someone in WCG HQ.

      My son Richard received a word from the Lord at that time, telling me to answer the letter as fully as possible, as if it was a genuine inquiry. So I did.

      My letter answered the various specific questions about tithing that were posed. It contained some concepts and phraseology which were new to the WCG. The letter was not short. It took some hours to write. I received no acknowledgement or reply.

      Some weeks later a new WCG publication about tithing and /or giving came off the press. In places it contained remarkable similarities to what I had written! I was not fooled! We know the WCG mentality.

      This is not slander. It is fact. HWA began this trend. His successor perpetuated it, and Jo Tkach junior is merely following in the footsteps of his mentors. You should not follow deceivers!

      Malcolm B Heap, Feb 1998

      PO Box 29, Aylesbury, HP17 8TL, England

      1. The deceit of Herbert W Armstrong is revealed in The Deceitfulness of H W Armstrong and in The Corrupt Leaders of the Worldwide Church of God, available for £2.00 from the above address.

      Comment


      • #4
        exposing the truth of a matter.......................

        i do believe as the Holy Spirit exposes the false teachings of man - we should heed them.
        I hate death
        i hate to see people hurt and maimed by liars and cheats
        i hate disharmony and decay
        infact i hate vanity and all the ugliness it coughs up to most people WHO simply want to live in peace and happiness.
        so when some satanic angels comes along and dupe man - i get mad.
        why?
        because if we follow the NT and the advice of Jesus, rather thsn sitting under the feet of ''master religious man'' - we would be made wise to salvation and die to the sea of death and lies.

        i was reading the exposing of WWC of G and all of its corruption and false teaching and deception and so i wondered if the ''sins of arnstrong himself'' would perpetuated into his followers - namely lies and incest and molestation and rapes - were thsese sins passed into the congregation that he dominated over.

        this spirit would have run rampant over the pews - why?
        because they licenced themselves to follow a''master con artist'' and a man, who was a liar and the pews failed to discern his corruptions. They did not study to be ''aproved'' by blindly followed an ''angel in light''.

        In ignorance they became apart of the ''nest of vipers''...why? they failed to study and seek and to BE APPROVED
        .
        so now let us see if this man CALLED ARMSTRONG and his gross sins come upon the pew people and affected them .....
        do we see true evidence that this man's sins corrupted other families and caused havoc and destruction within them.

        perhaps Allen [spying] you could speak on this subject for us regrding these sins.............. and their transferance......

        called THE SIN OF TRANSFERENCE.'
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        let us come into divine understanding of this evil perpetuating itself and growing into a ''nest of destruction'' in families.


        this is SIN JUMPING from one person to another.

        Jesus laid hands on others - the lighty power in HIM was transfered by heaing others etc...............
        The goodness of power was transferred by 'divine energy' for positive healing.,

        so we can find the alternative view.

        Who is more prone to demonic activity?
        http://www.iam777.org/demon.htm
        People, who have had doors opened by iniquities created by the sins of incest, pornography, drug abuse, satanic ritual abuse, child abuse, false religion, neglect, eating disorders, homosexuality, etc. become prime targets for demonic influence.

        Once demons gain a foothold, they may invite others to join them. In this way they help magnify the destructive effects of sin. In this environment demons can be invited into a child at or before birth, by the demons that have gained control of the child’s parent or parents. Many times demons, promoting iniquity in a child’s parents, attract other demons, promoting similar destructive effects of that same kind of iniquity in their offspring.

        "Birds of a feather flock together". For example, if that iniquity is child abuse, then that sin, unchecked, can continue to the next generation, aggravated by demons inviting other demons of like kind to enter the child.
        This may be where the term "ancestral demon" came from, because the fellowship of demons invading a family does have similar traits.
        so the sad part of ignorance, is, if a dominant false teacher is also a child molester - this sin jumps into weaker vessels who are also prone to such weaknesses themselves.'' for kind goes with kind.''

        ofcourse true repentance cleans the slate.

        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        http://www.iam777.org/demon.htm

        this makes edifying reading to find out all about what happens when a person willing sets under any type of evil - ignorance to our peril is not bliss.
        Last edited by LucySmith; 10-30-2011, 08:16 PM. Reason: ps added,,,,i had to pick up flower....

        Comment


        • #5
          Who Is It That Determines Sin?

          Hi Lucy,

          Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

          Nay, Lucy, Sabbath keeping was introduced by YAHWEH ELOHIM HIMSELF! YAHWEH both spoke this commandment from the Mount and wrote this commandment with HIS Finger on a Tablet of Stone. It is a significant part of HIS Testimony to mankind:

          Exodus 20:8-11
          8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
          9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
          10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of YAHWEH thy ELOHIM: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
          11 For in six days YAHWEH made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore YAHWEH blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

          Notice above that the Sabbath, the Seventh Day, is the Sabbath of YAHWEH. It belongs to HIM, and YAHWEH has commanded that we remember it and keep it holy. The vast majority of men and women do not remember it. Is their forgetfulness sin for them? Who is it that determines what sin is?

          Can you tell me, Lucy, exactly how did you come to know or learn that incest is sin? Who told you that incest is sin? How did you come to that understanding? Did the Holy Spirit just whisper it in your ear?

          If I were to follow your thinking and example, would I not have to admit that incest is now ok since non of us are under the Law? Why do you judge Mr. Armstrong for any transgression of the Law when you are not willing to judge yourself according to the same standard? Why is Mr. Armstrong to be judged by the Law and not you yourself?

          Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

          Sincerely, Latuwr
          The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            no Allen,

            without the Law of Moses, we all have a conscious and not one person goes to university to learn evil.
            The law, may have well have judged sin but first the sin was from within - no-one has to be told, and as for the Sabbath - the master pervert and his poor victim were ''laughting'' at ''your stupidity''.
            Even he didnt believe what he preached - it was a method of control.

            How could you sit there and lap his tripe up is beyond reason.
            your not a jew and you are on dangerous ground, saying the Holy Spirit doesn't know what he is talking about.

            ummm

            i sometimes read about religious men like you in USA, who say ''i am right'' yet are far from the truth and it seems as if your country produces many types of such men who go off the rails.

            http://www.smh.com.au/national/capit...103-1mxxc.html
            another piece of 'imported poison'' no one needs to listen too.
            why is this so?
            why would 1 country produce so many queer people with such queer teachings and why do the gulliable sit there and eat poisons?
            BTW.....
            here is another example in ''the ship of fools''' who dont know they are mocking and reviling the teaching of the holy Spirit
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xpj_cBhAN0

            as for my thinking
            it comes from my teacher HOLY SPIRIT - NOTICE THE WORD H.O.L.Y. = why arent sabbath keepers ACTUALLY HOLY?
            infact they die.
            sabbath keeping killed them, just as their other queer beliefs do.

            why not read the truth from an EX armstrongite.
            HE ESCAPED - your'e still locked into mockery of the Lord Holy Spirit.
            why do you called HIM ''a liar''? aren't you scared?
            http://thetruedoctrineofchrist.blogs...disciples.html

            Comment


            • #7
              Getting The Message Of Acts 15?

              Hi Lucy,

              Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

              Shabbat Shalom!

              If you were a Gentile or Greek in the first century and you desired to have fellowship with orthodox Jews in the Diaspora, on what day of the week would you publically seek to meet with them? If you invited them over to your house and home, what meats would you cook to share with them? In seeking to have fellowship with them, would you invite them to come with you to a pagan temple to worship with you on one of your pagan holidays? If so, why or why not?

              You have already been made aware by ImAHebrew or ABeginner of the existence of thousands of orthodox Jewish Believers in Messiah Yahushua who were made all the more zealous for the physical keeping of the Law and the traditions or customs of Judaism by their faith in Messiah Yahushua (see Acts 21:20)! How many years have passed between Acts 15 and Acts 21?

              Here is the problem that you have, Lucy, when you say that the Holy Spirit made a decision against the keeping of the Law for both Jew and Gentile Believers in Messiah Yahushua. If such a decision was made, then you have an almost impossible task to adequately explain why Jewish Believers in Messiah were keeping the Law and observing the customs of Judaism prior to Acts 15, all doing so under the direction of the Holy Spirit which you yourself now claim to be following. You cannot say that Jewish Believers were not law keepers because if that were so, then there is no need to convene a council or spiritual Sanhedrin to determine what Gentiles must be doing in order to have fellowship with Jewish Believers. Do you see this, Lucy? If Jewish Believers are not keeping the Law, then there is no need to worry about what the Gentiles must do in order to have fellowship with Jewish Believers in Messiah Yahushua.

              The same Holy Spirit, which you claim is now guiding you in your anomia, was initially given to the Apostles and Disciples on an annual high Sabbath Day. The Apostles and Disciples were all assembled together because a holy convocation is commanded for such days. This annual Sabbath Day was Pentecost, and this Sabbath Day occurs roughly 50 some days after Passover each year. We know that the Holy Spirit was given on Pentecost, but most do not know that the Testimony of YAHWEH, that is, the Ten Commandments, was also given to Israel on Pentecost. Why would YAHWEH ELOHIM give both the Law and the Holy Spirit on the same high Sabbath Day if it was HIS intention to later do away with Sabbath and Law keeping for Jews? The Law does not do away with the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit does not do away with the Law. On the contrary, they compliment each other, and they establish each other (see Acts 5:32 and Acts 5:42 and Acts 21:20 and Romans 3:31)?

              Peter in Acts 5:32 says that ELOHIM gives HIS Holy Spirit to those who obey HIM. Does this obedience also include remembering the Sabbath Day to keep it holy? If not, then why were Jewish Believers still zealous for keeping the Law in Acts 21. Is it your testimony that these Believers were unaware of or in disagreement with the decision made by the Apostles and Elders in Acts 15?

              Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

              Sincerely, Latuwr
              The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                how can i tell you how wrong you are?

                why do you listen to man?

                we have been over this so many times, we fight over it because - it is a teaching that is denying you life abundant. No one can say i did not strive with you to bring fellowship and truth.

                nothing in the law of Moses, is for you nor me today acts 15 is the clincher.
                it is blaspheme to call the Holy Spirit a first class fibber.

                face the true facts Allen...........................
                you are held back because some dreadfull man you would not even invite into your home for fear of his over active penis, and your children's safety and you want me to swing back into the law of Moses because of his say so?


                so Pedophiles GIVE OUT THE TRUE BIBLE ADVISE NOW?
                really?
                is it advisible to listen to the advise of a pedophile?

                this is what our fight boils down too hey?

                pedaphiles are to be trusted now, advising on the bible?
                yes/no/maybe?

                Where I live, they are the most despised human beings next to homosexuals.
                SO- why wasn't this pervert in jail for 50yrs? UMMM and his ''ministers'' who turned a blind eye in the next cell as ''accomplices''.

                ac·com·plice
                noun \ə-ˈkنm-pləs, -ˈkəm-\



                Definition of ACCOMPLICE



                : one associated with another especially in wrongdoing


                this is a jail bait ''apostle '' who told you, ''Jesus said to observe the sabbath'' all the while he and victim little dotty are doing the slow fox trots on a fri night and the ''apostle'' is whispering in the victims ear....



                '' I CONTROL THEM AND THEY DO AS I SAY''-[ publically recorded]
                hello allen the puppet.
                wait let it sink in.
                ''I CONTROL THEM, THEY ARE TOO STUPID, AS THEY DO AS I SAY''
                wait.....


                '' I CONTROL THEM AND THEY DO AS I SAY''-[ publically recorded]
                hello allen the puppet.
                wait let it sink in.
                ''I CONTROL THEM, THEY ARE TOO STUPID, AS THEY DO AS I SAY''
                wait.....

                '' I CONTROL THEM AND THEY DO AS I SAY''-[ publically recorded]
                hello allen the puppet.
                wait let it sink in.
                ''I CONTROL THEM, THEY ARE TOO STUPID, AS THEY DO AS I SAY''
                wait.....

                '' I CONTROL THEM AND THEY DO AS I SAY''-[ publically recorded]
                hello allen the puppet.
                wait let it sink in.
                ''I CONTROL THEM, THEY ARE TOO STUPID, AS THEY DO AS I SAY''
                wait.....

                YOU WANT ME TO SWITCH TOO this....... to me it is totally repulsive.

                Definition of PEDOPHILIA

                : sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object
                now Allen i am racking my brains out here - trying to find the NT verses where THE SAVIOUR ADVISES and insistes all of us are TO HEED TO His ''true'' APOSTLE called PEDOPHILIA.

                so seeing as you have listen to this ''apostle'' and love to sit at his feet and smell his foot odor - please direct me to the verses that ''APOSTLE'' PEDOPHILIA recommends WE NEED FOR OUR SALVATION under the laws of Moses.

                lucy - [the detester of all lies and child molesters ]

                PS
                as for Abeliever - just an utter zero~! without 1 thing within to admire and i shall never respond to his perverted and twisting lies he thinks are so spiritual.
                the law of Moses is the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil.
                I eat from the Tree of Life.
                the cross killed the Tree of good and evil and the law of sin and death, DIED - ABOLISHED BY THE GOSPEL= that is the greatest Godly advise you shall get because it is the truth and Michael Maynard was so inspired that Imahebrew appear silly and shamed and looked like mince-meat by his blithering.

                Does he think people can be so easily duped.
                you are not a jewish abeliever so what's ya problem?
                like Hello?
                and transition happens as one realm dies and another take pre-emminence.
                it died in 70ad.


                psps
                i dont make any decissions for the Holy Spirit Spying - i love HIM too much to be so bold.
                so HE MAKES THE DECISSIONS ON A WEE PROBLEM acts 15 - AND ADVISES US ALL on - His decission.
                This becomes my decission too but obviously not your decission because you stick up with the perverted jail bait ''apostle'' who is killing you, thru his perversity on Grace and faith.

                well
                all i can say is Father has allowed you to be duped.
                when you stand for the teaching of a pedophile - what type of man is this?
                why arent you puking your guts out like any decent wholesome godly man would and repent from being so conned - but NO - you defend the indefensible.


                you wrote ''you were not moved to keep the sabbath till you heard it thru the ministry of H armstrong'' = poor deceived you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Listening To ELOHIM Rather Than Man!

                  Hi Lucy,

                  Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

                  Shabbat Shalom!

                  I suppose I must say it again in view of this your word and question:

                  "why do you listen to man?"

                  I did not listen to any man in making my decision to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy. If fact, nothing that the Worldwide Church of God had to say about keeping the Sabbath Day holy save perhaps that Saturday was the Sabbath Day as opposed to Sunday, had anything to do with my eventual decision to start keeping the Sabbath Day. I resisted for seven years keeping the Sabbath Day because like you right now, I firmly believed in a false concept of grace which stood opposed to keeping the Law. This false concept was espoused by both the Lutheran Church and by the Worldwide Church of God.

                  You see, the teaching of the Lutheran Church and the Worldwide Church concerning grace were very similar. Someday, perhaps, I should send you the letters in my possession from pastors of both churches. It was a stumbling block for me that the Worldwide Church of God could teach about grace like Lutherans and still at the same time teach that some of the Law should be kept. So, I did not start to keep the Sabbath Day because of the teaching of Mr. Armstrong or the Worldwide Church of God. I started to keep the Sabbath Day simply because I saw that YAHWEH ELOHIM says to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.

                  After I, in simple faith, began to obey the Sabbath commandment, Messiah then revealed to me HIS Death, Burial, and 3rd Day Resurrection in the Law. I was astonished by this life changing and life giving revelation, and I absolutely knew that I should be baptized both my body and my clothes through immersion in water as instructed in Numbers 19.

                  My problem then became: Who do I find to baptize me?

                  So, I consented to be baptized by a minister of the Worldwide Church of God. In counseling for baptism, I informed this pastor that I was convinced that the local church of the Worldwide Church of God in St. Louis was the true Church of God, but I was not so sure about that bunch out in Pasadena. He listened to me, and patiently informed me that my baptism would make me a member of the Worldwide Church of God including that bunch out in Pasadena. I consented at that time despite all the false doctrine which I knew was being taught by the Worldwide Church of God.

                  My position then was very similar to my position right now. I have accepting you into an internet fellowship despite your unlawful practices and your false beliefs simply because of your expressed belief in LIFE NOW! I am forced by your belief in LIFE NOW to give you a chance just like I was forced by some of the beliefs of the Worldwide Church of God to give them a chance. This acceptance does not guarantee that we will eventually share the same beliefs. It simply means that we are given a chance to do so, and as of right now, I fully hope that given time and growth in grace and knowledge of Messiah Yahushua, that we will eventually walk in the same beliefs.

                  Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

                  Sincerely, Latuwr
                  The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    i read where u wrote this Allen a few days ago......

                    i cannot be bothered to find it, it all is so sickening....

                    but i do remember you said '' it was thru Mr armstrong, you had the revelation to keep the sabbath'' or ''it was thru Mr armstrong, Jesus told you to keep the sabbath'',
                    i wrote back to say WHY ON EARTH WOULD JESUS DO THIS?

                    why would Jesus preach thru a pedophile.?
                    I cannot believe this would be possible.?
                    this man was debauched and you allow his thinking to become your thinking and what is more disgusting he is dead.

                    Do you understand what Enoch saw as the angel was taking him to visit Father - he saw the ''fate'' of pedophiles and other men of like ilk - i shall find it - perhaps your idol Master, shall be there now.
                    ummm - sure is a wonder where people end up, all that sexin' and drinklin' and thievin' and lies has a reaping.

                    do you know where it says '' God has written His name of the foreheads''? - well you have on your brow ''armstrongism'' and grace has gone out the back door.

                    however let us put this revolting act aside for a minute Allen.
                    and consider the pedophile's stance on ''feasts of Tabs'' and your little tent adventures?
                    ummm.
                    and your bacon fetish,
                    how does sleeping in a tent and not eating bacon make you holy? 4 piddly self induced laws of Moses - makes you holy? this whole stupid mindset you possess remains me of Tahn1000 - a blindness that seems to cause insanity.

                    BTW - nothing i do is UNLAWFULL. Everything I do, is taught in the bible.
                    not once have i blasphemed the Holy Spirit and called HIM a liar nor do i follow unscriptural teachers.
                    I do have Life now, perhaps you dont. Have you ever thought on that?




                    if you are temple of the living God why is the law of Moses there?

                    if you are a living sacrifice , why is the law of Moses there?
                    you have one foot in 2 camps and the bible says you cannot serve 2 masters.
                    you serve the Law of Moses
                    Emmanuel serve the law of Life.

                    The law of Moses represents ''the tree of the knowledge of good and evil''
                    satans stronghold,
                    and the deceived mind of man, cannot escape its curses.
                    hence few escaped into Life from lawkeeping.

                    you want this as your ''saving power'' for your full salvation?

                    well Allen you are so far off the mark it saddens me to see you so far away from someone you profess to love.
                    If you really loved the Saviour, you would be eating from His tree - life and be His living temple - where death has been abolished - see Allen if your'e a lawkeeper [in part] death has not been abolished in you.
                    yes you use the scriptures but with a twist, cunningly, siding with the law of Moses rather than the tree of Life.

                    BTW
                    i shall never ever ever, walk in any law of Moses ever.
                    I am not taught of man nor agree with their agenda of having 2 masters.
                    I have 1 husband - Emmanuel.

                    did you know Michael D Maynard a former ex of armstrongism, dedicated monthsof his life to day and night study following the OT and NT on armstrongism and found all the lies that were so wrong and unbiblically when understood in context and not ''cut and pasted scriptures'' - this man was so dedicated to find out the real truth of ''serving 2 masters''.

                    Iahebrew comes in and disputes his findings and now he is not allowed to comment. [hurrah justice prevails.]
                    you see Allen, i guess the truth [ a Person] shall only give a certain time to be understood and then TRUTH [ a Person] WILL SHUT THE DOOR upon lies.

                    http://thetruedoctrineofchrist.blogs...disciples.html


                    ok..........

                    btw i found what u posted below...

                    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------being a spiritual detective.....looking for clues.
                    lets go seeking the truth of this matter.




                    sabbath keeping - introduced by man......



                    to allen, you wrote...






                    Ex 20:8
                    8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

                    For years, I agonized over the above word of truth. All my teachers told me that I did not need to obey this commandment.

                    They used the Apostle Paul to tell me that I was not under the Law, but then


                    I clearly heard this teaching of Yahushua through the Worldwide Church of God:




                    shall i post it again Allen - clue #1

                    ''I clearly heard this teaching of Yahushua [Jesus] thru the WWC of God''.


                    this is what you posted today.
                    a different version clue #2
                    .
                    Someday, perhaps, I should send you the letters in my possession from pastors of both churches. It was a stumbling block for me that the Worldwide Church of God could teach about grace like Lutherans and still at the same time teach that some of the Law should be kept. So, I did not start to keep the Sabbath Day because of the teaching of Mr. Armstrong or the Worldwide Church of God. I started to keep the Sabbath Day simply because I saw that YAHWEH ELOHIM says to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy.


                    so i have to believe you when u posted this?

                    '''I clearly heard this teaching of Yahushua through the Worldwide Church of God''
                    version #1

                    OR, today you posted this.

                    ''So, I did not start to keep the Sabbath Day because of the teaching of Mr. Armstrong or the Worldwide Church of God.
                    I started to keep the Sabbath Day simply because I saw that YAHWEH ELOHIM says to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy''.
                    version #2

                    you see Allen, a false pedophile ''apostle'' would be the liar here as the early church never held their 'church' on a Sabbath but the 1st day of the week.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      here is ''the twist''

                      The example of Herbert Armstrong proves that he was a deceiver of the first order!

                      I have explained in previous articles [see footnote 1] how he deceived the minds of his followers in such a way that they looked to HIM.

                      He diverted their attention away from Christ and caused them to listen to, heed, adore, and follow HWA!
                      I wish you to notice this truth =He diverted their attention away from Christ and caused them to listen to, heed, adore, and follow HWA!


                      the disgusting pedophile, wanted your servitude Allen - he wanted adoration and praises and so ''certain'' NT bible verses became ''off limits''.

                      so what did this perverted ''apostle'' say again? doing the slow fox trot...
                      '' I CONTROL THEM AND THEY DO AS I SAY''-[ publically recorded]
                      wait let it sink in.

                      ''I CONTROL THEM, THEY ARE TOO STUPID, AS THEY DO AS I SAY''
                      now what did you post on ''sabbath'' unbiblically teaching- Allen?

                      '''I clearly heard this teaching of Yahushua through the Worldwide Church of God''




                      diverted their attention AWAY FROM CHRIST [ the anointing power that made The Saviour like He was and Is]

                      Allen the quest of life HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WORKS but with the a heart and mind change over.
                      TRANSFORMATION - is a mind change
                      REDEMPTION - is a body change.... 3 parts of us changed = what too? MATH 17 - TO BECOME A CLONE AND A LOOK A LIKE OF THE MESSIAH AND HIS IMAGE.

                      WHY ARE YOU SO BOGGED DOWN IN THESE BEGGEDLY SMALL wee tiny small, OT facts THAT DIED IN 70ad?

                      WHY ARENT YOU EXPANDING INTO TRUE LIVING LIFE.?
                      WHY arent you posting amazing revelations on Life abundant ummm.
                      well that is impossible, for grace is not allowed in your house.

                      again let me remind you.


                      '' I CONTROL THEM AND THEY DO AS I SAY''-[ publically recorded]
                      wait let it sink in.

                      ''I CONTROL THEM, THEY ARE TOO STUPID, AS THEY DO AS I SAY''
                      now what did you post on ''sabbath'' unbiblically teaching- Allen?

                      '''I clearly heard this teaching of Yahushua through the Worldwide Church of God''

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        cont, why dont we go an visit with Enoch and see what he saw in his travels....

                        chapter 10 of the ''secrets of Enoch' is a good starting point regarding pedophiles and other assorted acts against humanity.

                        ''the terrible place of various tortures.''
                        is the heading u need to read,

                        it makes one realise what sin is and the sowing and the reaping facts.
                        looks to me like the reaping is something to desperately avoid.

                        http://www.aren.org/prison/documents...of%20Enoch.pdf

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hearing The Voice Of Messiah Yahushua!

                          Hi Lucy,

                          Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

                          Here is what I wrote to you (Post #4 on your "not the Plain truth" Thread) giving credit to the Worldwide Church of God for teaching me:
                          I am very grateful to Mr. Armstrong for a number of teachings, namely:
                          • That Saturday is the Sabbath Day and not Sunday!
                          • For introducing me to the Feasts and Holy Days!
                          • That British speaking peoples in a physical sense are the recipients of the promises given to Joseph!
                          • And I am especially thankful for the teaching that ELOHIM is a family!
                          I learned these things through the ministry of Mr. Armstrong, and without his ministry, who is to say that I would have learned these things?
                          And here is what I wrote to you (Post #49 on your "not the Plain truth" Thread):
                          Here is the plain truth, Folks: If you desire to live and not die, then you must begin to hear the voice of YAHWEH ELOHIM, and then in obedience obey HIM.

                          I heard HIS voice to me over 30 years ago. His voice came to me through the work of Mr. Armstrong and the work of the Worldwide Church of God. The voice I heard said this:


                          Exodus 20:8
                          8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

                          For years, I agonized over the above word of truth. All my teachers told me that I did not need to obey this commandment. They used the Apostle Paul to tell me that I was not under the Law, but then I clearly heard this teaching of Yahushua through the Worldwide Church of God:

                          Allen, if you desire life, then do what God commands (please see Matthew 19:17).

                          When I began to keep the Sabbath Day, I had little understanding. Bottom line, I began to keep the Sabbath Day holy because that is what my Heavenly Father says to do, and in doing so, like Abraham, I clearly left my evil Father's House, that is, HaSatan, the antinomian who continues to speak the LIE and continues to teach everyone that all can disobey ELOHIM and live.
                          Please take notice of Matthew 19:17 above:

                          Matthew 19:17
                          17 And he (Yahushua) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, ELOHIM: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

                          The above is Yahushua's teaching in Matthew 19:17. In HIS own voice, Messiah is telling you, Lucy, that if you desire LIFE NOW that you yourself must keep the Commandments. This is not the voice of Mr. Armstrong. It is not the voice of Mrs. White. It is not the voice of Allen Brown. It is the voice of Messiah Yahushua, and I clearly heard that voice in an article published in the Good News, and I rejected that voice as you yourself are doing right now.

                          You see, Lucy, I, as a good Lutheran, was very selective in accepting some words spoken by Messiah Yahushua, and initially I rejected HIS words in Matthew 19:17 because they appeared to me to be against my very human and very Christian concept of grace, and I began to fight and write against HIS words with great arrogance and gusto. After a number of years of writing on this subject, I ended a paper on whether or not Saturday was the Sabbath Day and whether or not I should be remembering the Sabbath Day to keep it holy with these words:

                          "Little Did I Know; Little Do I Know!"

                          At that time, I was still in limbo concerning keeping the Sabbath Day, but I was beginning to really hear the voice of Messiah and the voice of YAHWEH ELOHIM.

                          Why fight against the voice of Messiah Yahushua and the voice of YAHWEH ELOHIM? I know that you desire life! Why not do as THEY say and remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy?

                          Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

                          Sincerely, Latuwr
                          The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            this is a start- to admit where u learnt this from..

                            am very grateful to Mr. Armstrong for a number of teachings, namely:•That Saturday is the Sabbath Day and not Sunday!
                            •For introducing me to the Feasts and Holy Days!
                            •That British speaking peoples in a physical sense are the recipients of the promises given to Joseph!
                            •And I am especially thankful for the teaching that ELOHIM is a family!
                            I learned these things through the ministry of Mr. Armstrong, and without his ministry, who is to say that I would have learned these things?
                            that you learnt this teaching [above] from a pedophile.
                            an incestous rapist as fully publically and painfully recorded.


                            thank you for your confirmation Allen

                            so the truth is this matter is this......


                            you learnt this OT feasting, sabbathing, and assorted OT etc's FROM A PEDOPHILE.

                            A grotseque human abomination of man told you what to believe - so - you take his word as being from ''the lord'' and the truth.


                            wow.
                            may i say I have never heard of anything quiet as sickening and evil as that.....
                            but we have more news from this Pedophile and his religious outfit...................

                            More than a few Ambassador College students came innocently earnestly looking to learn about God and found their lives a nightmare.
                            In a Christian College of the sort represented by Ambassador College, one would expect learning "how to live, instead of how to make a living" as the campus brochures bragged.
                            With the motto: "The Word of God is the foundation of knowledge," one would expect the highest standards of ethics and propriety.
                            Instead, particularly beginning in the 1970s, there were many beer busts.
                            The legendary pot parties were not just a legend.
                            Drug dealers were to be found among the faculty.
                            There were seductions of the female students by the faculty and evangelists.
                            There was even a small ring of homosexuals on campus.
                            Two lesbians taught grade school at the Church's Imperial School.
                            More than one male student was turned out by a male faculty member or male employee of the Church. One of the evangelists kept extensive pornography in his office and there is credible proof that he is a pedophile of male children.

                            http://hwarmstrong.com/herbert-armst...f-history.html

                            so after this ''religion'' and its evil FRUIT BEARING, i have to believe in this man and his ministry.

                            so according to....
                            allen e - I am Mrs nasty lawless lucy, because i dont believe in a Pedophile's, proven ''cut and paste'' religious misconceptions.

                            how blessed am I too have escaped SO GREAT A CORRUPTION. Thank you Abba.

                            now let me tell you what Jesus REALLY said ''BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM''
                            this man would have as ''much truth in him'' AS it would be possible to ''wipe the bum of an elephant with a piece of confetti.''

                            you have been CONNED, over and over and over - while he and his victim are slow fox trotting with each other on a friday night and not scared of ''being seen'' out, because he said '' they are too stupid to go out of a friday night, I TOLD THEM NOT TOO''

                            only satan could give his ''angel of light'' this much power to persuade men to believe lies.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              your question Allen.....

                              Why fight against the voice of Messiah Yahushua and the voice of YAHWEH ELOHIM? I know that you desire life! Why not do as THEY say and remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy?

                              I already Have THE LIFE Allen.

                              Grace and Faith FOUND me and I loved them so much that when these 2 truths are put into practice i received the gift of His eternal Life.


                              now to your ?
                              -------------------------------------

                              Allen, your problem is you have NOT learnt to ''rightly divide''. You have listened to religious men and they HAVE FORMED your opinions for you.

                              so you are time warped into the OT as a jew. But your'e a gentile.

                              the 2 laws cannot be mixed together.
                              Jesus fulfilled one law [ the schoolmaster] and introduced His law of Life - the NEW covenant.
                              new is new
                              old is old

                              The jewish culture had 40yrs of transistion and probation - then the door was shut in 70ad.
                              Allen, It is history, this cannot be denied.
                              Father shut the door upon the jewish OT laws and scattered all the items of this former belief to the 4 winds.
                              Nothing of the OT law of Moses was left in ITS natural existence - nothing - desolated and destroyed - isnt this a clue to HOW FATHER FEELS?

                              Jesus Himself told us this would happen.

                              This happened as History too, why? because the new covenant, the new creation, the redemption of spirit soul and body - became a new adventure into the LAW OF LIFE for those who believe HIM- the Saviour.

                              THE LAW OF LIFE - is to eat from the tree of Life - which is the wisdom used by the Saviour to LIVE IN A ABUNDANT SUPERNATURAL LIFE - THAT IS A NORMAL LIFE cuz everyone ELSE lives abnormally as their spirit remains sleeping and they have forgotten, who they are, meaning '' a spiritual creation having a human experience''.

                              let us now rightly divide this word on this issue.
                              there was a massive problem introduced by ''certain men'' , namely - if the jews and gentiles were to keep the law of Moses.

                              I can understand their problem because it was a massive change of mindset for both races - THIS CONVERSION.

                              CONVERSION - is not easy.
                              It is very difficult to instantly form a new belief system and to forsake old traditions.
                              Nonetheless the Holy Spirit is the dictator on this whole mindset CHANGE over.

                              so the ? came up = ''should the gentiles follow the law of Moses as well as the Law of life in the Spirit?


                              Allen - this was the question raised up - certain men came in and challenged the Gospel over this.


                              so EVERYONE WAS THERE - all the bible heros there in the counsel of Jerusalem ACTS 15...
                              the church assembled the Apostles all present, they talked it thru and the HOLY SPIRIT DECIDED - that the gentiles did not need to follow the law of Moses.
                              THAT WAS THE HOLY CONCESUS.
                              despite all that had gone on prior to this assembly - the final decree was ''NOT SO.''

                              the law of moses had ended - the veil rent - and the new way into eternal life opened up - that was a better thing now why? BECAUSE OF THE UNDYING PRIESTHOOD was now inplace.

                              see Allen you cannot have 2 priesthoods going on at the same time.
                              that is impossible.
                              The law of Moses had a dying priesthood
                              The Law of Life has an UNDYING PRIESTHOOD.

                              there are not 2 high priests?
                              not from levi anymore.
                              IT IS FROM MELCHIDEZEK - THE IMPERISHABLE LIFEFORCE now is in operation.

                              the Saviour NEVER GAVE OUT a list of commands - but He did give 2 - ''love God'' - I do - ''Love the neighbours'' - i do - these sums up all the law of Moses.
                              why?
                              it is hard to explain but '' if we seek the kingdom of God first -i do- ALL ELSE SHALL BE ADDED UNTO YOU'' - it is.
                              the ''all else added'' - IS ALL THE VITAL TRUTHS A DISCIPLE NEEDS TO BE A TRANSFORMED, REDEEMED into a new creation, knowing how to use divine wisdom, in all situations - so they do not sin and kill themselves by their ignorance.

                              I am not ignorant, I seek out the truth and am guided by the Lord Holy Spirit 24/7. I dont stop till i KNOW the truth. why? because only then am i freed from deception.

                              I understand how to enter into eternal life today. Grace does it for me.
                              I dont keep any OT laws but the 2 Messiah said for all else is now unimportant compared with IMPERISHABLE LIFE AND HOW IT WORKS in a new creature.

                              it is totally unimportant all the ''do's and donts'' of the law of Moses - these are works of the flesh.
                              what is IMPORTANT IS TO BE FASHIONED IN THE LIKENESS OF THE SON OF GOD.

                              NOW for the final proof.
                              H Armstrong copied his ''religion'' from the JW's the 7th day Adventists and the Millerites.....
                              these people professed to be ''God's true church'' with the only true word.
                              they are a social grouping of ''the religious elect'' and so ''group speak together'', that puffs up their deceptions.

                              This ''group speak'' in these religions is that they do not allow any doubts or unbelief in their doctrines to shatter their delusions from others outside their ranks who question their unbiblical teaching.
                              ofcourse it does not really matter for each pew person dies from sin anyways.

                              they still remain under the law of sin and death - therefore - sin killed them and NO law keeping ever kept anyone alive, with the exception of Caleb, the 3 of daniel's friends, Elijah and a limited few others i have not found out as yet. I am still seeking,.

                              therefore Allen, when u try to push me into law keeping and call me ''lawless '' I KNOW IMMEDIATELY ''you speak GROUP SPEECH''. This is manipulation from ''angels of light'' as their teaching ''cannot be questioned''.

                              ALLEN i question everything.

                              I smell corruption - death stinks.

                              death is the ABSENCE OF LIFE AND NO LAWKEEPER [IN PART OF THEIR CHOOSING] ever lived in the image of Christ ever.

                              so

                              it boils down to this..................

                              all these beggedly things of '' what day, what food, what this what that'' - comes from the religions Matrix of man.

                              WHAT IS IMPORTANT - IS HOW MY SPIRIT IS BEING QUICKENED TO BECOME ALIVE AND TO LIVE SUCCESSFULLY AND SURVIVE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD, AND TO WEAR HIS GLORY AS MY ROBE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS and not to appear naked [ without divine life] at my wedding.


                              so- no pedophile and his nasty little satanic ministy and his spying interferring elders, some with homosexual tendencies and their ''group speech'' shall teach me anything but to have utter comtempt and disgust for everything they teach. Their spying elders, their lustly lives, their blackmailing of others, their ''secret gatherings'' to hold against others - does not remind me of MY SAVIOUR, for surely they are satan's friends.

                              Comment

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