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Thread: Why does Satan want to turn "gullible" people into "anti-vaxxers?"

  1. #61
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    HE DIED FORTHE SINS OF THE WORLD we are told.
    Lucy: Where are we told that Christ died for the sins of the world?

  2. #62
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    He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins

    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    HE DIED FORTHE SINS OF THE WORLD we are told.
    but He also said to '' pick up the cross and follow Me'' = that means = our turn to walk His walk
    HE MADE THE WAY POSSIBLE for His ekklesia to follow
    how
    with their cross.

    now that act = is never ever going to be substitutional.

    so what does ''picking up our cross mean'' in the 3d Matrix.
    it means, among other things
    * we too die to self, [our own personal self will]
    * die to flaws of the flesh
    * die to all religious misconceptions,
    * die to all religious self fix its
    * die to all human feebleness
    * die to the unsound mind
    * die to all the unsound deceived values of the matrix [called vanity]


    THE WALK INTO THE WAY, is a cross bearing life of '''''''''''''''''''''self destruction of the carnal adamic man'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
    =========================================================================

    something you desperately need to learn Ken as following parts of the law of Moses will never BRING FORTH A CROSS BEARING LIFE
    if it had the Saviour would never have been needed



    of all creation

    1 John 2:2 says so
    He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
    1 John 2:2
    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    For He is The Atonement who is for the sake of our sins, and not in our place only, but also in the place of the entire universe.

    atoning sacrifice = died as a sacrifice = gave up HIs life for us

    The Bible tells us
    “[Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:2 NIV)
    While He offers everyone forgiveness and salvation, unfortunately not everyone will accept His gifts.
    Jesus, God’s Son, saved the world from sin, death in hell, and the power of the devil.
    He did this through His own perfect life, His death, and His resurrection.
    Very simply put, the propitiatory work of our Lord Jesus Christ is universally effective.
    That is true whether anyone believes it or not. On the cross, Jesus paid for every single sin that has ever been committed, by any person who has ever lived on the face of the earth.
    "The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, "Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"
    John 1:29.
    I can remember a lot of songs that say Jesus paid for our sin.
    Of course this is true.
    But it's not the whole truth.
    There is a large part of humanity being ignored.
    There is no mention of the fact that Jesus paid for the sins of believers and unbelievers alike.
    get some real truth into yourself
    Common sense alone should tell one that an omniscient, omnipotent God would not have used the point of a sword to build His house on a perverse and bloody foundation.
    When it has come to shedding the blood of others in the name of a god, or enslaving and persecuting those who were not like-minded,
    The religions of the Abrahamic House of Bondage: Christianity and Islam are by far the worst offenders.

  3. #63
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    of all creation

    1 John 2:2 says so


    1 John 2:2



    atoning sacrifice = died as a sacrifice = gave up HIs life for us

    The Bible tells us
    “[Jesus] is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” (1 John 2:2 NIV)
    While He offers everyone forgiveness and salvation, unfortunately not everyone will accept His gifts.
    Jesus, God’s Son, saved the world from sin, death in hell, and the power of the devil.
    He did this through His own perfect life, His death, and His resurrection.
    Very simply put, the propitiatory work of our Lord Jesus Christ is universally effective.
    That is true whether anyone believes it or not. On the cross, Jesus paid for every single sin that has ever been committed, by any person who has ever lived on the face of the earth.

    I can remember a lot of songs that say Jesus paid for our sin.
    Of course this is true.
    But it's not the whole truth.
    There is a large part of humanity being ignored.
    There is no mention of the fact that Jesus paid for the sins of believers and unbelievers alike.
    Lucy: That is true.

  4. #64
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    THE REAL EKKLESIA can never be a ''substitutionist'' forgoodness sakes

    why not?
    because the REAL EKKLESIA ARE HIS OVERCOMERS, a group who overcome all things as Immanuel did.
    BTW
    not for the religious faint hearted, who follow some laws of Moses thinking they are In obedience = alas. it is a very deluded group.
    sigh

    THE OVERCOMERS
    are never involved in the fashionable religious rituals and dogmas that lead to death= THE CHURCH IS A PLACE OF DEATH A HOSPICE for the dying
    satan's play ground


    the overcomers
    this group are born again for His incorruptible seed - their old man died at the baptism of water NOW it is time for their BAPTISM OF FIRE.= FEW STAND IT

    THE DIVINE WORKMAN begins,
    the baptism of fire is the divine progressive removal of all human standards/beliefs/ habits/practices - etc - that ARE BELOW THE STANDARDS OF Christ = the verb of power - in other words THE REMOVAL OF VANITY [ that 3D world] FROM THE LIFE OF AN OVERCOMER

    Immanuel walks in front bearing His cross,
    the Ekklesia follows bearing their cross
    - TO WALK THE WALK and leaving '' let's talk the talk'' well behind
    get some real truth into yourself
    Common sense alone should tell one that an omniscient, omnipotent God would not have used the point of a sword to build His house on a perverse and bloody foundation.
    When it has come to shedding the blood of others in the name of a god, or enslaving and persecuting those who were not like-minded,
    The religions of the Abrahamic House of Bondage: Christianity and Islam are by far the worst offenders.

  5. #65
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    Lucy, am I reading you correctly?

    Quote Originally Posted by LucySmith View Post
    HE DIED FORTHE SINS OF THE WORLD we are told.
    but He also said to '' pick up the cross and follow Me'' = that means = our turn to walk His walk
    HE MADE THE WAY POSSIBLE for His ekklesia to follow
    how
    with their cross.

    now that act = is never ever going to be substitutional.

    so what does ''picking up our cross mean'' in the 3d Matrix.
    it means, among other things
    * we too die to self, [our own personal self will]
    * die to flaws of the flesh
    * die to all religious misconceptions,
    * die to all religious self fix its
    * die to all human feebleness
    * die to the unsound mind
    * die to all the unsound deceived values of the matrix [called vanity]


    THE WALK INTO THE WAY, is a cross bearing life of '''''''''''''''''''''self destruction of the carnal adamic man'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''


    something you desperately need to learn Ken as following parts of the law of Moses will never BRING FORTH A CROSS BEARING LIFE
    if it had the Saviour would never have been needed
    Lucy, am I reading you correctly? Are you denying that "Jesus" was your substitute, and that he didn't die in your place? If you are, here is a POST that has you saying otherwise. Here again, I may be misreading your words from your latest post. Ken

    P.S. Also, in your prior post you state:

    '' it delighted His father to bruise and smite HIM''
    ''WELL PLEASING AND DELIGHTED''.... are the words used.
    My question to you is WHY wasn't your earthly father more like YOUR heavenly father? Why wasn't your earthly father delighted to bruise and smite you, or your sisters? Hmm?
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  6. #66
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    It's simple guyguy.

    Quote Originally Posted by guyguy View Post
    Ken: You will go to untold lengths to convince yourself that your not believing in substitutes; but the fact remains that you did not shed your own blood for the remission of your own sins, and Christ shed his own blood instead of you shedding your own blood.
    Shalom guyguy, it's very simple. For a sinner to STOP sinning (for their sin GO INTO remission), it took Yeshua's Innocent blood being shed by THEM. Concerning forgiveness, all that is required is for the wicked man to TURN from their iniquities, and NONE of their former sins will be remembered (Eze 18:22 & Eze 33:16). Didn't Yeshua say that ALL manner of sin will be forgiven the sons of men, except for the sin against the Spirit? You try to make it seem so difficult for YOUR g-d to forgive you your sins, so difficult in deed that he would have to require the Innocent and Righteous blood of his only good child to be shed in your place. Did not Yeshua also ask which is more difficult, for a man to take up his mat and walk, or to forgive sin? Why do you try to make it so difficult for YOUR g-d to forgive you? Would you be that way as a parent? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  7. #67
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    Ken: This is very simple also, you believe in substitutes more than you know; Ezek.18:20,24 every man shall die for their own sins, and yet Christ died and shed his blood for your sins as Lucy's scriptural texts do prove; and sooner or later you will have to face up to this instead of putting blinders on, but the fact remains that you did not shed your own blood for the remission of your own sins, and Christ shed his own blood instead of you shedding your own blood for your own sins; and not to mention the fact that it takes Christ shed blood to justify you Romans 5:9 and your own blood does not justify you.

  8. #68
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    so Ken you seem confused here how about we get to the bottom of this wee problem

    act 7 scene 5t

    Lucy and Ken discussing non substitution or substitution now this is the question

    Lucy in quiet voice
    ''Ken, did the Saviour redeem you by HIS shed Blood?''

    Ken
    ''ofcourse what a silly question, everyone knows this is true''

    Lucy
    '' did you shed your blood for the sins of the world and for the remission of sins''

    Ken
    ''well, I am not too sure on this point,
    because the point I want to make is
    I did cut my fingers at work and my lip when shaving
    like the blood just flowed out,
    question
    does this blood letting count?

    Lucy
    ''no, you have to lose all your blood and die,
    basically on the cross and have your heart and lungs pierce by a spear
    = that was the standard no other, aka = the day satan lost''

    Ken
    ''well that seems extreme Lucy,
    I didn't go through that drama,
    I only put a band-aide on my fingers and lip,
    like it was no real deal for me - I went to work the next day even''

    Lucy
    ''well it is very safe to say
    """""" you have not shed your blood, had your heart pierced and died on a cross'''''''''''
    therefore
    you didn't die Ken, for your own sin''

    Ken
    ''well NO
    Yet it seemed like it at the time Lucy,
    I mean hacked up fingers is not nice and a cut lip,
    really my point is I couldn't eat for a day''

    Lucy
    ''well Ken, at atleast you now have admitted
    you did not shed blood nor died for your own sin''
    can we end this now after your confession.

    guyguy summed it up


    guyguy
    Ken: This is very simple also, you believe in substitutes more than you know; Ezek.18:20,24 every man shall die for their own sins, and yet Christ died and shed his blood for your sins as Lucy's scriptural texts do prove; and sooner or later you will have to face up to this instead of putting blinders on, but the fact remains that you did not shed your own blood for the remission of your own sins, and Christ shed his own blood instead of you shedding your own blood for your own sins; and not to mention the fact that it takes Christ shed blood to justify you Romans 5:9 and your own blood does not justify you.
    can we end this now after your confession.
    get some real truth into yourself
    Common sense alone should tell one that an omniscient, omnipotent God would not have used the point of a sword to build His house on a perverse and bloody foundation.
    When it has come to shedding the blood of others in the name of a god, or enslaving and persecuting those who were not like-minded,
    The religions of the Abrahamic House of Bondage: Christianity and Islam are by far the worst offenders.

  9. #69
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    Maybe he can be your substitute for eternal life?

    Lucy and guyguy, since you both desire a substitute to take your place, why don't you just acknowledge that your g-d will live for you in your stead. You both can just die, and he can take your place in life. Obviously, you both deny the non-substitutional aspect of the New Covenant:

    Jer 31:29 - 31:30

    29 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children’s teeth are set on edge.
    30 But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge.

    And you both desire to take a reward by having the Righteous and Innocent One punished in your place:

    Exo 23:7 Keep yourself far away from false accusations, and do not kill The Innocent and The Righteous, for I will not justify the wicked.
    Deut 27:25 ‘Cursed is he who accepts a reward to strike down an innocent person.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’

    So, you both should just believe you are cursed, for accepting a reward to strike down YOUR substitute, and now he can eternally live for you in YOUR place. Ken

    P.S. Can either one of you EXPLAIN how His Blood JUSTIFIES you? You might want to consider Num 35:33.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  10. #70
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    Lucy and guyguy, since you both desire a substitute to take your place, why don't you just acknowledge that your g-d will live for you in your stead. You both can just die, and he can take your place in life. Obviously, you both deny the non-substitutional aspect of the New Covenant:
    Actually Ken: This is exactly how the new testament describes us see Jn. 14:10, Jn. 15:4-5, Gal. 2:19-20; as I said, you believe in substitutes more than you know.

  11. #71
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    If someone dies as your substitute, they are SEPARATE from you.

    Quote Originally Posted by guyguy View Post
    Actually Ken: This is exactly how the new testament describes us see Jn. 14:10, Jn. 15:4-5, Gal. 2:19-20; as I said, you believe in substitutes more than you know.
    Shalom guyguy, you may need to re-think what a substitute does. If a substitute takes your place, how can you die WITH that substitute? Explain that to me. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  12. #72
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    Ken: Then you must also admit that you are separate from Christ; because it was not you that literally died Rom.6:8, 2 Cor.5:14-15 it was Christ, therefore you are not dead with him, again as I said, you believe in substitutes more than you know.

  13. #73
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    churchian dont fully understand REDEMPTION inc Ken [to restore man back....]

    into full union with Our Abba, our creator FATHER

    therefore
    the sacrifice of Immanuel THE Christ was pleasing to the Father,
    WHY SO?
    since it was undertaken in the name of the whole human race, it was able to restore mankind to God's friendship, which had been lost by sin.

    We are still left with a question:
    Why did obedience to the Father call for something gso tremendously difficult and painful?

    THE MEANINGS OF OUR RETURN
    New Covenant:
    The death of Immanuel THE Christ in obedience to His Father provided a basis for a new covenant between God and man, with Christ's obedience supplying man's part in the covenant

    SIMPLE once you ''get it''

    THE SOLUTION
    In a covenant, each party pledges something
    * The things should be of at least approximately equal value Since the price of redemption was of infinite worth, that to which the Father obligated Himself would be similarly infinite
    aka- , i.e., an inexhaustible treasury of forgiveness and grace by blessing us all with..
    ''The Son of God [MESSIAH] loved me, and gave Himself for me''
    " So there is an infinite objective title for each individual human being, generated by Christ's obedience.
    this GOOD NEWS cannot be removed Despite all naysayers TO THE CONTRARY

    Why did obedience call for something so immense?

    sin needs to be overcome by holiness and justice.
    there needs to be a re-balance as each sin causes an upset and for every sin brings with it a disturbance of the universal order,

    can you begin to '''see'''' a simple explanation resolves all difficulties.
    Psalm 11:7 : "God is sadiq [morally righteous] and He loves the things that are morally right.
    " Hence the notion that sin is a debt which the Holiness of God wants paid.'

    understand???????

    HERE was'''''''''''''THE CHOICE''''''''''''''''''''

    When man sins, rejecting the gifts of FATHER God, he disturbs this order, and brings great evils upon himself as a natural result of this disturbance Given this situation,
    FATHER God's Holiness, demands one of two things.
    * Either:
    men will have to live with the consequences of his actions, and never attain the supernatural happiness for which they had been destined by FATHER.
    *OR
    some supernatural action of moral worth will have to take place in order to compensate for the disorder~~~
    result
    Such an action would be pleasing to FATHER God, and be accepted by Him~~~~


    Now for THE ACTION
    The Father willed that His only Son should become man As God,
    * Jesus, would be able to perform an action of infinite moral worth As man,
    * He would be able to offer this action to His Father in reparation for the sins of men
    * The redemption of mankind,accomplished by Jesus out of love for men and in obedience to the Father, more than balanced the unbalanced universal order
    This act means that the Father's love is immense, beyond measure.

    understand simple facts????
    cont

    In the Garden of Gethsemani Jesus foresaw all sins of all times, and suffered from that vision
    His foreknowledge resulting from the vision His soul saw from the first instant of conception, and which He let us see briefly in Lk.12:50 and Jn 12:27
    "Now if the soul of Christ [in Gethsemani] was made sorrowful even to death on account of our sins, which were yet to come, but which were foreseen, there is no doubt that He received some consolation from our reparation, likewise foreseen."


    in the Goodnews there are 30 things THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB DOES.

    HERE ARE SOME
    *My debt is paid, once and for all''
    “So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.
    To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”
    (Hebrews 9:28)
    I am being spiritually healed; one day even my flesh will be replaced with an incorruptible body
    “…who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sin, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.”
    (I Peter 2:24)
    I am cleansed

    “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”
    (I John 1:7)
    BY THE SHEDDING OF THE SACRIFICAL LAMB the order of the whole universe and all dimensions WAS RESTORED BACK INTO TRUE original balance amen


    reconsider a true question,
    why?
    so you will understand the tragic ramifications of ''still keeping the 613 laws of Moses under the Old covenant''

    it is

    UNDER THE OLD COVENANT,
    THE WHOLE UNIVERSE REMAINED OUT OF ORDER, upset and unbalanced
    ..... ONLY....
    THE NEW COVENANT AND ITS MESSIAH BROUGHT THE WHOLE UNIVERSE BACK INTO BALANCE. amen
    all 613 laws were issued, when this whole universe remained upset and unbalanced.

    Now you understand WHY 70ad happened and the whole system of law, destroyed, never to arise again, to offer curses and woes of disharmony = UNBALANCED upset
    hence its imperfection
    Last edited by LucySmith; 05-23-2019 at 10:02 PM.
    get some real truth into yourself
    Common sense alone should tell one that an omniscient, omnipotent God would not have used the point of a sword to build His house on a perverse and bloody foundation.
    When it has come to shedding the blood of others in the name of a god, or enslaving and persecuting those who were not like-minded,
    The religions of the Abrahamic House of Bondage: Christianity and Islam are by far the worst offenders.

  14. #74
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    Totally confused!

    Lucy and guyguy, you both are totally confused. First, you both claim a "substitute" died in your place, and then you (for sure guyguy) try to tell us you died "with" him. Do you not know what a "substitute" is. Second, The Heavenly Father BOUND, or SHUT UP all of mankind in disobedience, by CREATING man FLESH. The FLESH cannot and will not OBEY, it is impossible, unless, The Heavenly Father SENDS forth His Son to REDEEM us OUT from that BONDAGE to sin that we were CREATED under. Our shedding of Yeshua's Righteous and Innocent Blood is the CATALYST to BRING our sin INTO remission to where we REPENT (change from how we were created-sinful flesh). This CHANGE allows us to become SAINTS, who walk NOT according to how we were created - the sinful flesh - but to walk according to the Spirit of Truth. Your delusional belief in a "substitute" taking your place and paying the penalty of your sin is what the "churchian's" believe. Their g-d and YOURS can ONLY forgive by "smiting" and "bruising" the ONLY good child he has. What parent would do something like this? Probably a parent who would give his son a serpent for a fish, or a rock for a piece of bread. So, if you want to follow the delusional INTO destruction, continue to believe in YOUR "substitute." If you want LIFE, learn how you were THERE on the Cross WITH Yeshua, DYING WITH Him, instead of Him being YOUR "substitute," dying in YOUR place. Ken
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  15. #75
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    Ken: It's not our fault that you believe in substitutes and your not even aware it when it's pointed out to you; and if you ever get your blinders off you will see it, and then you call us confused.

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