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Thread: *point of interest*

  1. #211
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    Possibly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    Well Ken,

    I said that all mankind's sins caused His death on the CROSS, and it's a shame that you want me to explain your own minds views, and ye will not believe nor accept the scriptures itself.

    I guess this means ye won't be speaking to me again.
    Shalom Eliyahu, possibly...it just depends. In the meantime, you had declared that "it was OUR own SINS or transgressions of Elohim's divine spiritual laws that caused Yah'Shua Messiah's death on the Cross" AND "Yah Elohim uses our sins to give us HIS Elohim's gifts of GRACE," so are we to safely assume that, according to your OWN words, OUR SINS would be the "vehicle" that Elohim USES to give us His Grace? And IF so, can you expound or explain that any further? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  2. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Shalom Eliyahu, let me see if I can speak plainly as to what you are trying to say. Previously, you had declared that "it was OUR own SINS or transgressions of Elohim's divine spiritual laws that caused Yah'Shua Messiah's death on the Cross" AND "Yah Elohim uses our sins to give us HIS Elohim's gifts of GRACE." Hmm? So now we must explain or expound your beliefs to be that our sins ONLY killed His "body" on the CROSS, and not His "psycke?" Is that what you are trying to expound or explain to us? And did Elohim, in USING our sins to give us His Grace, ONLY give us His Grace because we killed His "body," and NOT His "psycke?"

    I hope you appreciate how I have expounded and explained YOUR confusion concerning His "body," and His "psycke," and please accept this as the answer to your question above. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Ken, no you have not, and where did I write that our sins KILLED HIS BODY? That's your re-interpretation.

    And too, why won't you tell us how Abraham is not dead?

    It's not my words, it is Messiah and His apostles words re-quoted above, and you simply disbelieving and ignoring them won't make them go away or disappear either.
    A bit of revelation for ye.

    Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

    Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

    By His name YAH Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

  3. #213
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    Let's see here, according to Ken and Spying, they KILLED Messiah, I wonder how they went BACK in history to the first century, maybe they had a time machine, beam him up scotty says captain Kirk.

    Or, why I know how they did it, they have been reincarnated, Spying must have been Ciaphas the priest, and Ken must have been Herod.

    Ye reckon?
    A bit of revelation for ye.

    Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

    Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

    By His name YAH Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

  4. #214
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    Well, help me out here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    Ken, no you have not, and where did I write that our sins KILLED HIS BODY? That's your re-interpretation.

    And too, why won't you tell us how Abraham is not dead?

    It's not my words, it is Messiah and His apostles words re-quoted above, and you simply disbelieving and ignoring them won't make them go away or disappear either.
    Shalom Eliyahu, help me out here. Your exact words were that "it was OUR own SINS or transgressions of Elohim's divine spiritual laws that caused Yah'Shua Messiah's death on the Cross." So, YOUR sins CAUSED Yah'Shua's DEATH on the Cross. Now, is it not common language that when someone CAUSES the death of someone else, does that not mean that they KILLED them? The LANGUAGE of Peter to those living in Jerusalem at the time was VERY accusative in telling them THEY KILLED Yeshua (I can quote the Scriptures if you like). They confessed their guilt in killing Him and it appears that you have also done the same as you have openly admitted that YOUR own SINS caused His death. So in causing His death (killing Him) are you now inferring or claiming that you did not KILL His body? Please tell me, concerning the DEATH that you caused of the Messiah, just exactly what did you kill, if it wasn't His body? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

    P.S. Abraham is dead.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  5. #215
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    Ye are digging a very deep hole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    Let's see here, according to Ken and Spying, they KILLED Messiah, I wonder how they went BACK in history to the first century, maybe they had a time machine, beam him up scotty says captain Kirk.

    Or, why I know how they did it, they have been reincarnated, Spying must have been Ciaphas the priest, and Ken must have been Herod.

    Ye reckon?
    Shalom Eliyahu, ye are digging a very deep hole that you will have to climb out of someday. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  6. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Shalom Eliyahu, help me out here. Your exact words were that "it was OUR own SINS or transgressions of Elohim's divine spiritual laws that caused Yah'Shua Messiah's death on the Cross." So, YOUR sins CAUSED Yah'Shua's DEATH on the Cross. Now, is it not common language that when someone CAUSES the death of someone else, does that not mean that they KILLED them? The LANGUAGE of Peter to those living in Jerusalem at the time was VERY accusative in telling them THEY KILLED Yeshua (I can quote the Scriptures if you like). They confessed their guilt in killing Him and it appears that you have also done the same as you have openly admitted that YOUR own SINS caused His death. So in causing His death (killing Him) are you now inferring or claiming that you did not KILL His body? Please tell me, concerning the DEATH that you caused of the Messiah, just exactly what did you kill, if it wasn't His body? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

    P.S. Abraham is dead.
    Really Ken, which part of his soul is not dead, if ye know, and I thought that you and Spying believed in LIFE?

    Abraham is dead huh, well it looks as IF ye do not really believe Messiah in John 8, and in LIFE after all, and are ye better than Abraham?

    Oopps, looks like ye are already in a hole.
    A bit of revelation for ye.

    Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

    Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

    By His name YAH Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

  7. #217
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    Let's RECAP!

    Shalom Eliyahu, let's recap what has transpired with our little discussion.

    1. You claim that your sins caused Yeshua's death on the Cross.

    2. You claim that man can only kill the "body" of man, not the "psycke."

    3. You claim that you did not write that our sins killed the body of Messiah, yet you claim above that your sins caused His death. So EXPLAIN, IF you caused His death, what did you kill if you did not kill His body?

    4. You claim that Elohim USES our sins to give us His Grace, yet when asked of you to give the Post # where you have explained this, you refuse to.

    5. You claim Abraham is not dead, but IF you believed Messiah's OWN words, you would teach otherwise.

    Eliyahu, all of this confusion would diminish away if you would only loosen your neck a little and soften your heart to properly understand and believe in the Grace of Elohim. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Shalom Eliyahu, let's recap what has transpired with our little discussion.

    1. You claim that your sins caused Yeshua's death on the Cross.

    2. You claim that man can only kill the "body" of man, not the "psycke."

    3. You claim that you did not write that our sins killed the body of Messiah, yet you claim above that your sins caused His death. So EXPLAIN, IF you caused His death, what did you kill if you did not kill His body?

    4. You claim that Elohim USES our sins to give us His Grace, yet when asked of you to give the Post # where you have explained this, you refuse to.

    5. You claim Abraham is not dead, but IF you believed Messiah's OWN words, you would teach otherwise.

    Eliyahu, all of this confusion would diminish away if you would only loosen your neck a little and soften your heart to properly understand and believe in the Grace of Elohim. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Ken,

    It's your confusion, you pretend to believe in LIFE, yet ye don't believe Messiah's words about Abraham.
    A bit of revelation for ye.

    Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

    Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

    By His name YAH Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

  9. #219
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    Ye see Ken, I said that our sins caused His death, our sins caused Messiah to lay down His Psyke for us as He said and did do, now why won't ye believe Him?
    A bit of revelation for ye.

    Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

    Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

    By His name YAH Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

  10. #220
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    Oh, I believe what He says, you don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    Ken,

    It's your confusion, you pretend to believe in LIFE, yet ye don't believe Messiah's words about Abraham.
    Shalom Eliyahu, no, I believe what He says, you don't. I can show you a Scripture that PROVES Messiah believed Abraham was dead, and you should present a Scripture that PROVES Messiah believed Abraham was alive. And if you think you have one, produce also WHEN you think it was that Abraham rose from the dead. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  11. #221
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    Let's RECAP a little more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    Ye see Ken, I said that our sins caused His death, our sins caused Messiah to lay down His Psyke for us as He said and did do, now why won't ye believe Him?
    Shalom Eliyahu, let's recap a little more. Back on page 9 of this thread I presented a parable about the emperor's son, who was killed by the drunk rich woman, because in her drunken state, she ran a red light. You responded by saying this:

    Oh I can keep on running that red stop light (breaking the divine spiritual law), after all, the emperor loves me so much that He sent His Son to keep that law in my stead so I don't have to do so, no matter how many people I murder at this red stop light.
    And then the next post after you speaking about "no matter how many people I murder at this red stop light," you stated this to Lucy:

    Make no mistake dear, it was OUR own SINS or transgressions of Elohim's divine spiritual laws that caused Yah'Shua Messiah's death on the Cross, our SINS or transgressions pierced Him, and He HATES iniquity or lawlessness.
    So are you changing your mind here NOW? Your sins really didn't CAUSE His death on the Cross, your sins really didn't PIERCE Him? Messiah Yeshua TOOK His OWN life, and PIERCED Himself, and all you have to do is believe you had nothing to do with it? But see Eliyahu, the FIRST message that went out to the people from the Apostles was the message that the people had murdered and had taken the LIFE of Messiah Yeshua, and He WILLINGLY went along with it. Your denial of YOUR involvement in TAKING His life will not go well for you. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Shalom Eliyahu, let's recap a little more. Back on page 9 of this thread I presented a parable about the emperor's son, who was killed by the drunk rich woman, because in her drunken state, she ran a red light. You responded by saying this:

    And then the next post after you speaking about "no matter how many people I murder at this red stop light," you stated this to Lucy:

    So are you changing your mind here NOW? Your sins really didn't CAUSE His death on the Cross, your sins really didn't PIERCE Him? Messiah Yeshua TOOK His OWN life, and PIERCED Himself, and all you have to do is believe you had nothing to do with it? But see Eliyahu, the FIRST message that went out to the people from the Apostles was the message that the people had murdered and had taken the LIFE of Messiah Yeshua, and He WILLINGLY went along with it. Your denial of YOUR involvement in TAKING His life will not go well for you. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Ken,

    I meant every word that I said, and you with this your following own words Messiah Yeshua TOOK His OWN life are reinterpreting and WRESTING Messiah's words into ye OWN words, and this won't go well with you. 2 Peter 3:16.
    A bit of revelation for ye.

    Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

    Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

    By His name YAH Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

  13. #223
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    Oh dear = messy messy...elijah

    VERSE QUOTERS end UP...…………... ''CRAZED UP MIXY''...……….


    so
    STAY SIMPLE and we have the answer
    Yes, the Jewish leaders initiated the deed, and the Romans carried it out.
    But because each of us has sinned, He died for every single one of us.
    people using whatever portrait of God they can find on the biblical smorgasbord of divine portraits to excuse whatever kind of violent and unloving attitude they have against people they hate or disagree with.
    The Bible has been used throughout history to excuse slavery, war, genocide, torture, vengeance, capital punishment, and the superiority complex of the “chosen”.
    The reality is that all of this can be found in the Bible.
    And yet, these things are the opposite of Jesus.

  14. #224
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    His life was taken from Him, BUT, it was with His full consent-make no mistake!

    Quote Originally Posted by Eliyah View Post
    Ken,

    I meant every word that I said, and you with this your following own words Messiah Yeshua TOOK His OWN life are reinterpreting and WRESTING Messiah's words into ye OWN words, and this won't go well with you. 2 Peter 3:16.
    Shalom Eliyahu, you are mistaken, His life was taken from Him, but He fully consented and allowed it to happen. No man took His life from Him WITHOUT His agreeing to it, and that is what He was saying here in John 10. Now I am sorry that these verses confuse you so:

    Jn 10:17-18 Therefore doth My Father love Me, because I lay down My life, that I might take it again.
    18 No man taketh it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of My Father.
    Your confusion stems from the fact that you cannot grasp the meaning of His Words. He is simply stating that He willingly GIVES His Life for us to do as our sin feels fit. It was all according to the COMMAND from the Law where it states that SINNERS are to KILL their Sin Offering. The COMMAND did not require that the Sin Offering should take it's OWN life. That is absurd, and my comment concerning Messiah Yeshua taking His OWN life was to point out the absurdity of how you deny that WE all took His Life BY sinning.

    Look at these Scriptures which SHOW Yeshua was willing to give His Life for sinners to take. He could have stopped the taking of His life at any time in the process of us killing Him, but then it would not have worked as it had been planned:

    Mt 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He shall presently give Me more than twelve legions of angels?

    Jn 19:11 Yeshua answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against Me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered Me unto thee hath the greater sin.

    Mt 27:14 And He did not answer him with regard to even a single charge, so the governor was quite amazed.

    Mt 27:25 And all the people said, “His blood shall be on us and on our children!”
    And to top it off Eliyahu, here is a Scripture that POINT BLANK says that His Life was TAKEN:

    Acts 8:33 In His humiliation His judgment was taken away: and who shall declare His generation? for His life is taken from the earth.
    Please Eliyahu, come to your senses and BELIEVE that Yeshua willingly gave His Life for us to take from Him. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  15. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Shalom Eliyahu, you are mistaken, His life was taken from Him, but He fully consented and allowed it to happen. No man took His life from Him WITHOUT His agreeing to it, and that is what He was saying here in John 10. Now I am sorry that these verses confuse you so:

    Your confusion stems from the fact that you cannot grasp the meaning of His Words. He is simply stating that He willingly GIVES His Life for us to do as our sin feels fit. It was all according to the COMMAND from the Law where it states that SINNERS are to KILL their Sin Offering. The COMMAND did not require that the Sin Offering should take it's OWN life. That is absurd, and my comment concerning Messiah Yeshua taking His OWN life was to point out the absurdity of how you deny that WE all took His Life BY sinning.

    Look at these Scriptures which SHOW Yeshua was willing to give His Life for sinners to take. He could have stopped the taking of His life at any time in the process of us killing Him, but then it would not have worked as it had been planned:

    And to top it off Eliyahu, here is a Scripture that POINT BLANK says that His Life was TAKEN:

    Please Eliyahu, come to your senses and BELIEVE that Yeshua willingly gave His Life for us to take from Him. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    The COMMAND did not require that the Sin Offering should take it's OWN life. That is absurd, and my comment concerning Messiah Yeshua taking His OWN life was to point out the absurdity of how you deny that WE all took His Life BY sinning.
    Ken, I have already shown you the scriptures telling ye who literally killed Him 2.000 years ago, however, ye ignore those scriptures to keep the traditions of ye own minds ideas.

    I can tell by this statement of yours, that ye cannot understand the spiritual other side of this, and ye WREST these scriptures to FIT ye own minds traditional ideas.

    PS: What's absurd is you contradicting Messiah and John's words, and you THINKING that your own minds words are above theirs.
    A bit of revelation for ye.

    Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

    Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. John 8:19.

    By His name YAH Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

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