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Thread: The Gift Of Righteousness!

  1. #1
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    Post The Gift Of Righteousness!

    Hi Everyone,

    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Here is a repost of a post that I recently made on Armageddon Online Forums entitled the Gift Of Righteousness:
    Hi Everyone,

    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    The Apostle Paul spake in this manner concerning the gift of righteousness:

    Romans 5:17
    17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Yahushua Messiah.

    Please notice that some, who receive the gracious gift of righteousness, these shall reign in life! What does that mean, and how exactly does that work? Christianity thinks that she has received this righteousness; yet, all Christians continue to physically die. Some reign in life, uh?

    Adam gave to all of mankind the gift of physical death. My Messiah Yahushua likewise has given to all of mankind the possibility of the gift of continued or perpetual life (often translated as eternal life, see Romans 5:21). How many today believe in that gift? I know that I do, and most think that I am crazy!

    Listen up, Folks! Moses exhorts all of us to choose LIFE, and we don't see anyone who have lived for the past 3500 years. Why? I submit that it is because no one really believes that we can fulfill the Law and have LIFE and live! So, Christians and Jews, what's the answer, must we all continue to physically die following the blind as they fall into their graves?

    Christians, do you have a friend in a high place? Jews, how about you? Why do you all fail in believing in the possibility of remaining alive in your present life?

    If the gift of righteousness results in the justification of life (see Romans 5:18-19), why is it that all who confess that they themselves have received this gift, why do they all continue to physically die? Answers, Anyone?

    Thanking in advance any that should be moved to reply, I am,

    Sincerely, Latuwr
    Please tell me, Christians and Jews, do the Hebrew Scriptures speak of the possiblility of LIFE NOW, or do they only speak of LIFE after physical death?

    Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  2. #2
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    Thumbs up Justification By Faith!

    Hi Everyone,

    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    HaSatan has been able to deceive the Christian Church, who is a woman, concerning the nature of salvation. The Christian Church, and I make no distinction right here amongst the numerous sects, the various churches of the Christian Church believe that the work of Jesus performed in their stead and on their behalf was undertaken to give them all life after they physically die. Thus, salvation delivers life after death, and this salvation comes to those who have been saved by grace solely through their faith while someone is yet alive. This faith is understood to be exactly what one comes to believe concerning Jesus before one physically dies. Certain things must be believed about Jesus before this false Christian faith becomes operative. Of course, different concepts of Jesus exist amongst the various sects of Christianity.

    The Apostle Paul taught a Yahushua who is very different from the Christian Jesus. Paul was a Jew who became a Christian through conversion. Before his conversion, Paul was highly skilled in Jewish law. Paul kept the Law of Moses, and Paul followed the traditions of the Elders, that is, Paul observed the Oral Law.

    Christians imagine that Paul after his conversion stopped observing Jewish Law. This belief openly opposes the clear statement of Paul concerning his faith and the Law:

    Romans 3:31
    31 Do we then make void law through faith? ELOHIM forbid: yea, we establish law.

    Exactly, how does faith of Paul establish Law?

    In a nutshell, Paul understood that Yahushua died to give all of us a gift of commandment keeping in order that we might be justified or declared righteous. If we receive this gift of righteousness through faith or belief, then the believer can stand before the Law as one who has actually kept the Law. The believer is therefore one who establishes the Law by bringing his or her justification into the picture. The whole idea of justification or the idea of someone becoming just only makes sense in terms of an established Law. Without the existence of the Law, there is no need whatsoever to seek or speak of justification.

    In Paul's thinking, there are two ways to fulfill the Law and be declared righteous thereby. The old way was through Paul's former practice of keeping the Law in a physical sense. Under the Law if the Law commanded the sacrifice of an animal, Paul would then go up to Jerusalem and participate in the sacrifice of that animal. This participation, Paul deemed to be a work of the Law.

    The second way to fulfill the Law in Paul's mind was through faith, that is, Paul after his conversion came to believe that Yahushua was his sacrifice. The difficulty with this belief is proving beyond a shadow of a doubt exactly how we all did sacrifice Yahushua.

    Paul taught that we did sacrifice Messiah Yahushua through our sin, that is, Messiah did die for our sins according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:3). This idea of dying for sins is based upon the fulfillment of the Law whereby animals were put to death because of the sins of the Children of Israel. The Scriptures required that certain sacrifices be offered for sins, and the Scriptures determined how the sacrifices were to be used in order to provide the sinner with justification. Again, without the continued existence of the Law in the context of the fulfillment of the Law, justification makes absolutely no sense.

    So, allow me to repeat again the two ways in Paul's mind that the sinner could seek justification:
    • Through the killing of animals which Paul deemed to be a work of the Law
    • And through killing Yahushua which Paul considered a matter of faith
    Through the former we receive only temporary justification because the Law requires the same animal sacrifices to be killed over and over each year, and through the latter we receive permanent justification because the sacrifice of Yahushua is a one time for all time sacrifice.

    Please notice right here what Paul declares about our justification through Messiah Yahushua:

    Galatians 2:15-17
    15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
    16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Yahushua Messiah, even we have believed in Yahushua Messiah, that we might be justified by the faith of Messiah, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Messiah, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Messiah the minister of sin? ELOHIM forbid.

    So, everyone, do you see that faith in Messiah does not in any fashion promote sin?; rather, faith in Yahushua Messiah requires that the believer properly confess his or her sin and then repent or move away from that sin.

    Christians like Lucy actually resist justification by faith as taught by Paul. She desires to remain in her sin so she rejects the teaching of Paul concerning justification through faith, and she promotes the false gospel about the Jesus of this world which allows the sinner to remain in his or her sin. Why? If Lucy truly understood and accepted the teaching of Paul, then Lucy would repent of her Sabbath Breaking. By rejecting the truth about justification as taught by Paul, Lucy can remain in her Sabbath Breaking eventhough Paul clearly taught that the grace of ELOHIM is not given to mankind so that we can continue in our sin.

    Thanking any in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,

    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  3. #3
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    Thumbs up The Source Of Grace And Righteousness!

    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Shabbat Shalom to Sabbath Breakers as well as Sabbath Keepers!

    I am somewhat reluctant to bring this thread up from the past because of the speed in which threads are overcome with childish bickering. I am not complaining right here. All posts are good posts in my opinion even if they are nothing more than childish bickering.

    You have written this in quoting me in your post #54 on the New Testament Sabbath Thread:

    "Spying, where in my original post did I write and say that my own statement is in the scriptures, and why wont you admit that your own statements of sin is the origin of grace and righteousness is not in the scriptures either??"

    I am fairly certain that I did not make the statement which you attribute to me by highlighting above. It is possible that I did, but if I did do so, then I misspoke. I do recall making the statement that sin is the source of grace and righteousness. This is a very private interpretation based upon a tradition exhibited by the Apostle Paul in his New Testament writings. Of course, Paul was a Pharisee as Messiah Yahushua was a Pharisee. That Messiah Yahushua was a Pharisee can be easily supported through the New Testament Gospels and through the Acts of the Apostles. I follow in the tradition of Messiah Yahushua and the Apostle Paul.

    I know that my memory is not as sharp as when I was younger so I went looking this morning for the statement above that you attribute to me. I did find this below in which I definitely state what I have highlighted in a quote of myself below:

    "Now, I will tell you why the KJV translators rejected theses more obvious meanings of συνίστημι used in a transitive sense above. The KJV translators were all substitutionalists. It was impossible for them to conceive or understand that our sin, that is, our iniquity was actually the source of ELOHIM'S GRACE toward us through the work of Messiah Yahushua. According to substitutionalists, our sin is our sin, and ELOHIM'S grace is ELOHIM'S grace, and there exists a wide gulf between the two that cannot be crossed. Any attempt to destroy this wide gulf or barrier would make their false concept of the grace of ELOHIM somewhat less than the grace of ELOHIM. They are therefore stuck in their deception, and their dishonest translation gives them away.

    There are many today who follow in their footsteps. They exhort that we should let the scriptures interpret the scriptures, and that we should not attempt to understand what is being said by giving what to them is a private interpretation since what we say departs from the private interpretation made by the Christian translators long ago and still today. That in a sense is very correct. What we say about grace is very private, and this will become all the more evident as I proceed with this thread.
    Latuwr
    "

    If you are able, please show me where I stated that sin is the origin of grace and righteousness in my writings?

    Thanking you in advance should you be able to find that I did make such a statement, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  4. #4
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by Spying View Post
    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Shabbat Shalom to Sabbath Breakers as well as Sabbath Keepers!

    I am somewhat reluctant to bring this thread up from the past because of the speed in which threads are overcome with childish bickering. I am not complaining right here. All posts are good posts in my opinion even if they are nothing more than childish bickering.

    You have written this in quoting me in your post #54 on the New Testament Sabbath Thread:

    "Spying, where in my original post did I write and say that my own statement is in the scriptures, and why wont you admit that your own statements of sin is the origin of grace and righteousness is not in the scriptures either??"

    I am fairly certain that I did not make the statement which you attribute to me by highlighting above. It is possible that I did, but if I did do so, then I misspoke. I do recall making the statement that sin is the source of grace and righteousness. This is a very private interpretation based upon a tradition exhibited by the Apostle Paul in his New Testament writings. Of course, Paul was a Pharisee as Messiah Yahushua was a Pharisee. That Messiah Yahushua was a Pharisee can be easily supported through the New Testament Gospels and through the Acts of the Apostles. I follow in the tradition of Messiah Yahushua and the Apostle Paul.

    I know that my memory is not as sharp as when I was younger so I went looking this morning for the statement above that you attribute to me. I did find this below in which I definitely state what I have highlighted in a quote of myself below:

    "Now, I will tell you why the KJV translators rejected theses more obvious meanings of συνίστημι used in a transitive sense above. The KJV translators were all substitutionalists. It was impossible for them to conceive or understand that our sin, that is, our iniquity was actually the source of ELOHIM'S GRACE toward us through the work of Messiah Yahushua. According to substitutionalists, our sin is our sin, and ELOHIM'S grace is ELOHIM'S grace, and there exists a wide gulf between the two that cannot be crossed. Any attempt to destroy this wide gulf or barrier would make their false concept of the grace of ELOHIM somewhat less than the grace of ELOHIM. They are therefore stuck in their deception, and their dishonest translation gives them away.

    There are many today who follow in their footsteps. They exhort that we should let the scriptures interpret the scriptures, and that we should not attempt to understand what is being said by giving what to them is a private interpretation since what we say departs from the private interpretation made by the Christian translators long ago and still today. That in a sense is very correct. What we say about grace is very private, and this will become all the more evident as I proceed with this thread.
    Latuwr
    "

    If you are able, please show me where I stated that sin is the origin of grace and righteousness in my writings?

    Thanking you in advance should you be able to find that I did make such a statement, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    Well Mr. self admitted Pharisee Spying, I anticipated that your brother Ken would also jump out on that question, sure enough he did, and so I added his idea into the same question to you, because he argued on the origins, and why did you NOT also give us the thread and page of your statement above?

    However, if Mr. self admitted Pharisee wants it directly to him, we will see if he is honest.

    Spying, where in my original post did I write and say that my own statement is in the scriptures, and why wont you admit that your own statements of sin is the source of grace is not in the scriptures either??

    PS: The 2 Pharisee brothers are not in agreement on this either.

  5. #5
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    That Messiah Yahushua was a Pharisee
    Really?

    Please show us where Messiah said, that He was a Pharisee, or are you going to give us your own twisted translation and ideas?

  6. #6
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    Smile

    I am fairly certain that I did not make the statement which you attribute to me by highlighting above. It is possible that I did, but if I did do so, then I misspoke. I do recall making the statement that sin is the source of grace and righteousness.
    I am fairly certain that I did not make the statement
    I do recall making the statement
    Mr. Pharisee Spying is famous for his self contradictions as usual.

  7. #7
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    Mr. Pharisee Spying,

    What is the meaning of the word "source" and the word "origin" mean?

    source


    /srs/


    noun

    noun: source; plural noun: sources



    1.


    a place, person, or thing from which something comes or can be obtained.
    "mackerel is a good source of fish oil"


    synonyms: origin, birthplace, spring, fountainhead, fount, starting point, ground zero;

    https://www.google.com/search?q=what...ie7&gws_rd=ssl

    origin


    /ˈrəjən/


    noun

    noun: origin; plural noun: origins



    1.


    the point or place where something begins, arises, or is derived.
    "a novel theory about the origin of oil"


    synonyms: beginning, start, commencement, origination, genesis, birth, dawning, dawn, emergence, creation, birthplace, cradle;

    https://www.google.com/search?rls=co....0.icfkJ07wyMA

  8. #8
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    Thumbs up The Difference Between Source And Origin!

    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Here is a link that attempts to explain the difference between source and origin:

    https://wikidiff.com/source/origin

    ImAHebrew and I had a discussion this Sabbath morning after he saw my post on whether or not the two nouns, source and origin, are actually the same. He pointed out to me where Google indicates that they are synonyms. I actually looked both words up on Google before I made my post to you, and I also did a search of Lo Ammi to see if I did write that sin was the origin of the grace and righteousness. I could not find such a statement, but that does not mean that my search was exhaustive. This is why I requested that you demonstrate to me where I said such a thing since you quoted me as saying the above. Who knows, perhaps, I did say such a thing?

    Is it true that in your response to me above that you admit to adding ImAHebrew's use of "origin" to my statement about the source of the grace and righteousness? Why would you use ImAHebrew's expression and attribute that expression to me in a quote of me? How could your photographic memory allow you to engage in such dishonesty? Do you often deliberately misquote in order to misdirect and deceive and cause discord among Brothers?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

    Sincerely, Latuwr

    P.S. Post #77 on the Thread entitled "A Short History Of The Sin And Condemnation" contains the quote that I posted to you this Sabbath morning.
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spying View Post
    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Here is a link that attempts to explain the difference between source and origin:

    https://wikidiff.com/source/origin

    ImAHebrew and I had a discussion this Sabbath morning after he saw my post on whether or not the two nouns, source and origin, are actually the same. He pointed out to me where Google indicates that they are synonyms. I actually looked both words up on Google before I made my post to you, and I also did a search of Lo Ammi to see if I did write that sin was the origin of the grace and righteousness. I could not find such a statement, but that does not mean that my search was exhaustive. This is why I requested that you demonstrate to me where I said such a thing since you quoted me as saying the above. Who knows, perhaps, I did say such a thing?

    Is it true that in your response to me above that you admit to adding ImAHebrew's use of "origin" to my statement about the source of the grace and righteousness? Why would you use ImAHebrew's expression and attribute that expression to me in a quote of me? How could your photographic memory allow you to engage in such dishonesty? Do you often deliberately misquote in order to misdirect and deceive and cause discord among Brothers?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

    Sincerely, Latuwr

    P.S. Post #77 on the Thread entitled "A Short History Of The Sin And Condemnation" contains the quote that I posted to you this Sabbath morning.
    Ok Mr. self contradicting, self admitted Pharisee Spying, to clear this up.

    Let's see if you will admit that this statement is your own statement of ideas"" our sin, that is, our iniquity was actually the source of ELOHIM'S GRACE "" is yours and NOT the apostle Paul's written words??

  10. #10
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    Thumbs up My Own Words!

    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    These words indicated below along with the added phrase are 100% my own words:

    "Our sin, that is, our iniquity was actually the source of ELOHIM'S GRACE toward us through the work of Messiah Yahushua."

    Where did I ever say that they were the words of the Apostle Paul or that I was quoting him in the above statement?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spying View Post
    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    These words indicated below along with the added phrase are 100% my own words:

    "Our sin, that is, our iniquity was actually the source of ELOHIM'S GRACE toward us through the work of Messiah Yahushua."

    Where did I ever say that they were the words of the Apostle Paul or that I was quoting him in the above statement?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

    Sincerely, Latuwr
    I never said you did Mr. Pharisee, but I'm glad you admitted to the truth too.

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