The Eye of the Storm!

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Good morning and peace to you. You sense it the same as I, don't you? Look below at the bottom of this thread. Who is the space here provided by? Hurricane Electric! I think that we will get at the eye of the storm!

I also have a copy of our correspondence. I am going to repost below the Agenda Post that I made to you on the EliYah Forum. I will edit my posts or messages to you to reflect your name change on this forum. I request that you do the same for me (please change my name to my pseudonym: Spying). I also expect to slightly edit some personal information that I may have privately given to you. I don't know; I haven't looked to see yet. Please feel free to do the same. I may also edit the way I handled the names of the g-ds in my conversation with you.

Please, repost here your acceptance of the Agenda that you posted to me on the EliYah Forum. Then, I will post next on this thread a copy of my first e-mail to you. We can then alternate posts until we are up to date. I know that I now owe you a reply.

Sincerely, Spying

<B>________________________</b>

Originally posted by Spying: 12-02-2000 on the Methods and Maddness thread of the EliYah Forum

Hi Bratu,

I like you also. Please forgive me concerning renaming you. Many on this Forum will not address you at all if your name contains the elements of a false g-d. They will write posts to you, but they will never call you by name. I think that is rude so I have given you a name so that hopefully they can respond to you properly.

I too am a moulder like yourself. It seems to me that is what it is all about. Change is constant. The issue is really what are we going to be? There is a way I believe that is more ancient than all the ways, and for every way there is a foundation.

I would like to examine foundations with you actually measuring yours so to speak. I know that I will need the approval of EliYah and others for this because there is no way that I can examine your foundation without you doing some teaching. You are going to have to show me what you believe your foundation to be because I am not familiar with your way.

Then with your indulgence, I would like you to see the history of my foundation, and then I want to show you what change is like in my way.

Afterward, I will ask you to count the cost of change. If you like what you see, then I will role up my sheaves because my job as a molder through Messiah Yahshua really begins at that point?

Fair enough, Bratu?

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

"Spying,
Interesting i hadn't truely thought of it but it sounds like something of a good idea to me. However, i will warn you that i am not the best teacher as i am still a student as we all are. So if that is what is to be then i will indulge in this and see what is to come of it. You are right change is constant. We will speak further on this to decide what we think the best way to go about something like this will be. again thank you for your tolerance.
Marspital
The Aries"

There is my post to your reply Spying. So now i await what ever is to be next

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

First of all, please accept my apologies for the manner in which you were treated by my brothers and sisters on the EliYah Forum. I know that all things work together for the best for those who love YAH so it was probably meant for you to experience what you did experience, but that still does not excuse their atrocious behavior towards you.

Allow me to introduce myself. My name is Spying. I live in a western suburb of the City of St. Louis. I am the husband of one wife and the father of six children, five daughters and one son. Prior to this year, I was a concrete contractor. I primarily worked in residential construction. I have learned how to do everything incidental to pouring and finishing concrete flatwork. Thus, I have worked on everything that people commonly walk on. Right now, I am in training to learn how to sell roofs. So, in the late summer or maybe early fall of my life, I am learning a new occupation.

Learning new things is not easy. I would have preferred not to again stretch my wings at this point in my life, but there is a lesson for me to learn also. I would like to follow the agenda that I proposed to you if you are still agreeable. What is your foundation, Bratu? We begin this life with parents. If there are physical parents, there also exists spiritual parents. You have named Set as your Father. Why? What is seminal about Set? Just asking?

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Doh! i apologize spying i do not have any letters prior to the date of 12/9/00. My email automatically gets rid of stuff when it gets to be a certain age. So i apologize if you can put up my letters up until that point then i can pick up from there.

Bratu

[Spying]

Bratu, no problem

<B>______________</b>

Hello Spying

I guess i will start off by saying that i agree with at you said basically in that i do believe that things happen for a reason. I think that the way i was treated taught me a valuable lesson about those of that religion and for the most part their lack of tolerance. I believe in not casting aspersions towards people if i can help it.

Well i appreciate your honesty and your willingness to go out of your way to be nice to me. I will introduce myself as Bratu. I live in Acworth Georgia and am a student here as i have been for many years. For a living i run an industrial sewing machine and do work for the local schools, mostly building sets and props for their theatre performances.

I agree learning things is not easy i live that daily. I was raised traditional lutheran and baptist christian. which i remained without question for many years. I woke up one day and felt as though i wasn't being honest with myself and what i believe as far as religious and spiritual
things are concerned. So i began to explore and up until this point i have evolved quite a bit. It is hard to know which is which they all seek to confuse the sense and set counter balance to the others. For instance let's say i am a Hindu and something happens to me. To me it is a sign from Vishnu. I begin to question my faith, then is it a lie from a false god Vishnu, or the truth? Or is it a message from another God entirely like Aesma Daeva? That is were the difficulty lies judging where things are and were they aren't. My Father is Set yes, because all that i have searched and sought out to this point has led me to Him. My current devotion to Set is what i have felt is my path from within. I am very instincts led and oriented person. So my foundation is that i am a Follower of Set.

Bratu

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Exploring foundations is fun because on the surface you really cannot see the foundation. Usually, we only see the result as you did on the EliYah Forum. Most foundations are hidden, and thus we are required to dig in order to see how they are constructed and what they have been constructed on.

Lutheran? That is interesting to me. I started out as a Lutheran Church MO Synod devotee. So, I know well the foundation of Lutheranism.

Sewing machines? What do you sow? Working on sets and props for the theater I find amusing (I am not thinking of you). In a spiritual sense that is exactly the work that most on the EliYah Forum are doing in their spare time without actually realizing it. So, you do have more in common with them than they thought.

I have a feeling that you are going to learn how to asperse (you made me look up a word) many people.

Exploring! With a name like "Spying", you know exactly what I also spent a great deal of time doing.

Instinctual! Now, we are getting someplace. If you believe that you are instinctual, and if you believe that Set is your father, then Set must also be instinctual. In what manner did Set past this characteristic to you? You know, like father like son? How did he give you this characteristic? Do you believe that all instincts are good? Apparently not! The casting of aspersions is somewhat instinctual, or am I looking at that action wrongly? Maybe instincts are more basic. Anyways, how did you acquire your instincts from Set, and what instincts do you consider the most important?

Looking forward to exploring and digging more with you!!

Have a great day!

Sincerely, Spying

P.S. It gets hot and humid in Missouri, but Georgia in June is the hottest place I have ever been.

[Spying]

Hello Spying

You are absolutely right when peering at the surface you can't see the foundations. Which is why i felt i had something to teach the people at that forum. They only saw what they wanted to see which was an exterior. Hopefully even though maybe they don't admit it i have changed some or atleast gotten some to think about what they are doing. That is all i was after.

"Sewing machines? What do you sow? " Hmmm well i sow change :). But i sew embroidery on the machine. I have a love for working with my hands so i have all sorts of strange hobbies, but i love the theatre.

Hmm perhaps your definition of asperse was a bit different than mine. I try not asperse people cause that is a bad thing. I don't know you comment was a bit cryptic or perhaps it just doesn't make sense to me right now. So explain a bit further or re-word it please cause i wasn't sure what you meant.

I am a very instincts driven person. It is a very strong part of my being that i readily embrace. Set in and of himself is an instintual God. That is one of his domains and a very common trate to him. I don't believe that i embrace my instincts or have those instincts because of him but it is a common bond with him amoung other things. What i said and meant was that i don't cast aspersions if i can help it. I think that it is instinctual so some degree because fear inspires things like that. Fear is a basic instinct to some degree. In that fear of for instance somthing that can eat you. Versus the fear of someone challenging what you know. The latter isn't instinctual that is a human quirk that if we don't understand it, we feel it threatens us. The most important instinct is the most basic, Survival. What ever must be done to survive. I also value strength of mind and body. It is important to stand up for you principles and basically be willing to do
whatever you have to, to defend that. It is one thing to pick your fights it is another to run away. "I will not be a victim"-Hatebreed. Those are some of the things that are important to me. As well as the key being true to myself.

Bratu

PS i agree the only place i have ever been that was hotter was Colfax Louisiana in July. That was horrible.

[Spying]

I take it my response was unsatisfactory. Well enough. Good luck to you.

Marspital

Bratu

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Just got your message. Your response was more than satisfactory. I have been absorbed with what is happening at EliYah Forum. They changed the format to eliminate people like ImAHebrew and myself. I hope to give you a reply tomorrow morning.

Sincerely, Spying

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Sorry about the lateness of this reply. Alot has been happening. Apparently, you entered the EliYah Forum just before EliYah decided to change the rules to eliminate all those who do not believe that using the common names like G-d and J-sus is a sin. EliYah Forum is a Sacred Name Forum. Always in the past they have been tolerant of those who use the common names. Now, EliYah has changed the format whereby if you do make a post, you are admitting to him and to the world that you are not a closet user of the common names. ImAHebrew and myself use the common names in our Sabbath fellowships so we by choice cannot now post on the EliYah Forum.

Actually, this is a pretty slick move on EliYah's part. It does get rid of a certain number of us, and I think that is why he did it. It hurts. This is about the third time in my life that I have been removed from a fellowship. It always hurts, but I will not hang my hat in any place where there is not freedom within the fellowship to stand up and question those in authority. Everyone is accountable, and all should have the freedom to stand and relate their disagreement without fear of being excommunicated.

My dictionary gives a definition of asperse which includes the following: 1 : Sprinkle; esp : to sprinkle with holy water.

ImaHebrew and I are both sprinklers. I have a feeling that you also are a sprinkler.

What we do in a physical sense is important. There is a spiritual side to everything. The Hebrews were required to physically sew fringes on their garments. These fringes were reminders of all the commandments of the Law. So, that part of your occupation fits with you being a sprinkler in a spiritual sense. The Law of YAH is what gives border and definition to our lives.

The way you just wrote about Set, he appears to be more like a brother to you than a father. If you have common traits, where did you both get them? I agree that the desire to survive is important, but there are some things more important. Do you have a desire to continue at all costs? Let's say that you were given the power to survive, but the use of that power would destroy everyone else. So, you might survive, but you would be alone. Who wants to be alone? So there must be an instinct more important than survival? How about reproduction? That's instinctual. Is reproduction more important in your mind than survival? Does Set believe that reproduction is more important than survival? Has Set ever reproduced himself?

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hi Spying

Good to hear from you :). As far as Eliyah. I think that he is hiding things. Can't quite put my finger on it but i am usually not wrong about that sort of thing. He is deceptive i think. He eliminated those who choose to use other names because he fears what you have to say. That whole i am right you are wrong no two ways about it mentality breeds monsters and hate. Things like that are what caused the Crusades or the Inquisition or the witch burnings. None of it makes sense and those who secretly fear seek to guise that fear by doing such things. I was corresponding to him in email but i decided that i don't have respect for him so it seemed to me that the answer was to not listen to him at all. The difference between me and him is that i thought about and gave it time before i came to that conclusion he made that judgement with out a basis of knowledge. Therefore to me he no longer exists a waste of space, time, air, and skin. I know this seems a bit harsh but that is how i am with people such as that.

As for survival. Survival is the strongest instinct. Now that can be survival on an indivudual level or a species level. The idea is that the prime motivator for people is the preservation of the species or the self. See what i think is that there has to be a balance of those Instincts and the general mind/intelligence. I am civilized in alot of ways however not in many others. Like you said if it came down between me and the species that is where you need the balance because the one who is tilted to far to one side or the other won't see all there is to see in that light. If i am completely instincts and no coheisive thought then one would rather survive personally than the species depending on the individual's drive. The second though who is all mind and thought and no instinct may not see the consequences of their actions in another respect. Like what will happen to man if they do live. Things of that nature. So i try to be the best balance of the two that i can. Obviously i am using my mind else i wouldn't be able to form these thoughts and ideas for you.

Set isn't really my brother, He is my Father. In the sense of my Patron. Not in the sense that i was birthed by Him. He cares for me and watches over me. He was born of Geb and Nut which is basically earth and sky. In Egypt all were born in two amoungst the Gods. Except Set He burst from His mothers side and there by creating the first strain of chaos that still exists today. One thing is that my law is what gives me my direction and definition. It isn't about what i am told to do it is what i do. Society dictates many laws to us also alot of which would be particularly easy to get away with breaking. Here lies the rub. Do you not break your God's laws because it is wrong or because you fear punishment. The former is the right answer and the reason why i follow society's laws for the most part.
Set never reproduced persay. Anubis in some legend is His son but in others is not. So there is that.

Casting Aspersions also means casting judgement at people. Or slighting them. Hehe you are right though that is another definition of for asperse go to Dictionary.com to see the definition i was using. Yours is in their as well.
We do spread things, what i try to spread is for those people who are having a hard time like i was and are feeling like society and people are what is trapping them. I don't want anyone to feel like they have no where to go so they might as well conform. That isn't what it is about. It is about that personal journey that you have to take and i don't want anyone to feel like society has decided for them and that they haven't decided for themselves. I care about people. No matter how hard i try not to i would sacrifice myself and my time if i thought it would genuinly help people. So i don't want people to go through what i have gone through. My religion isn't what is important to others it is whether I can help them find a religion and an identity of their own. It is my Hero's quest as Joseph Cambell and Randall Crump would put it. So there is my motivation.

Bratu

[Stranger]

<b>Hi gang!

Is this the Wailing Wall of all the exiled ones from the Eliyah Forum?

When are we going to get on the real business of foruming?</b>

[Spying]

Hi Stranger,

Now I know why you would speak to us with such a familiar voice. Indeed, if Bratu had been treated in proper stranger fashion, then there would have been no need to reconstruct this conversation in such an unforuming like fashion. It would already exist.

You are most welcome on this forum, Stranger. I know that you have been deprived of good conversation in your last circumstance. May your plate always be full on Lo Ammi, and may your name be a constant reminder to all of us that we are indeed all strangers in a strange land seeking to inherit the Land of YAH. We thank HIM for the hospitality of your presence and for your friendship.

Sincerely, Spying

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

I hope this message finds you still in good health. Thank you for your reply.

There is definitely a time to be silent in the presence of an enemy. I view my enemies, like EliYah, also as brothers, and I strive to treat all men alike even if down inside myself I am very angry with them and think of them as not having value to exist. I work, and most often I fail, to look at the individual in the light of what he or she may be rather than what they may actually be. If I hope for them and treat them with respect, maybe I can help them be better. I know for a fact that all experience can help us become greater than what we are.

I agree with you that survival is the greatest instinct. What will a man not give up for his life? We are willing to surrender in order to survive, and that is because we fear what comes after death. Death is the great unknown. We are unclear what awaits us on the other side. We really don't know if we continue. Just as we really don't know where we came from, it is possible that we won't know where we have gone! But death may be no more than just another experience. If we really knew for certain, then maybe we would not fear?

Fear of pain is the greatest motivator. Man will do much more to avoid pain than he will to gain pleasure. Do you feel that there is pain on the other side of death?

Your description of Set made me immediately think of Eve. I see him as an Eve like being. Eve was a side of Adam. She was taken from him. Adam is a combination of earth (dust) and sky (spirit), and so is Eve. Now, I suspect you probably won't agree with this, but HaSatan in my mind is also feminine. His origin was in YAH. He came forth from YAH originally, as did Eve from Adam, as Lucifer, and then he became HaSatan through a bursting forth, a violent beginning, as did all the other rebellious. So, you views about Set have some basis in fact. The fundamental issue among the gods is the ability to reproduce. HaSatan cannot reproduce, and neither can any of the others. Only YAH can reproduce. So, both HaSatan and Set are the last of the Mohegans so to speak.

You are right about keeping the Law of YAH. He wants us to keep His Torah because we agree with it, but one can also keep it because you basically have a great fear of YAH and His wrath. That's ok with Him. Either way, His Law is kept.

Does Set have any issues against the Torah of YAH?

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hi Spying

Well my views of my enemies or people in general is that i give them the benefit of the doubt to begin with. I treat them as i would want to be treated with respect if i can. However once they disprove this i no longer give them that benefit of the doubt. I don't have any compunction to. It is my feeling that some people just won't get along no matter what so i do all a favor and just don't pay attention to them. No need to get in a tiff about it just let them lie so to speak. I agree experience can make us greater than we are. But at what cost is the issue. Sometimes it is experience that tells us some people just aren't worth the time.
Death is the great unknown because there is only one way to know for sure and that is to die. You can comfort yourself all day long by saying what will happen after death but there is no guarantee. My feeling is that the day i am going to die is the day i am going to die and there is nothing i can do about it. So i don't worry about what comes next because it is my next step. If i follow my heart now and try to better myself accordingly then i feel that i will reach the end that i seek. I think death is another experience because in some respects we all die many times before we are put in the earth or burned.
Interesting fear of pain is the great motivator? How about those of us out there who a lust of a insatiable appetite for pain is the motivator and not the fear of it? I think that life continues on the other side of death. It is like Wensday you get there and then you get to the other side it is different but it is still the same week. Pain is temporary.
I always thought of Satan as kind of like God both were neuter. Not really either way. Truthfully as far as a basis in fact i am not sure that i believe that there is such a thing as religious fact. Because it all about the unseen not the seen. My facts of religion are from my experience with Set. All people have a different version of the creation of man and so forth. I think that the Christian/Judaic is just another version. No more founded or realistic than any other. Granted this lumps mine in there as well however my personal experience is where i draw my conclusions from. I don't necessarily that Yah or God or Jesus or Yashua aren't real. They just aren't my God or Gods. All people have a Patron, or Matron God for that matter, and that is the one who is their proprietor. I follow mine you follow yours. I do think that other Gods can reproduce however. See the thing is though that Satan or Lucifer refering to them as the same, aren't the same as Set. They have their place in the workings of Christian and Judaic. They have been associated with others but no necessarily the same thing. There are Gods who are the same but that association is based on a closer reality. The association of Set and Satan was made later by the Greeks who didn't understand Set. They also got the Reader's digest version of him that had 3000 years of bad influence of the Osiris cult.

That is one thing i have a problem with. If the only reason you follow something is because you are afraid then i don't see that as really following as much as paying lip service. It like keeping your bases covered just in case. And that is no motivator for a religious founding. Believe because you believe not because you are afraid. My survival instinct is very strong but so are my principles. And unless i see a plan or reason in the future i would rather die than give up and survive.

Set doesn't have a problem with the Torah or the bible but a problem with its uses. And many times the people behind it. It isn't His book. Some of the morals i agree with. So there is that.

Bratu

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Good morning! How are you doing this fine toasty morning. It is kinda cold in Missouri.

In exploring your foundation, it is necessary that I ask you about your relationship with Set. I also seek to know about his/her beginnings and his/her nature. We are children of the Gods, and we are very imitative. We first seek to emulate our parents. Like father, like son so to speak. This is why I am questioning you the way I am.

I do not see Set and HaSatan as the same. To me they are two distinct gods, but they may have the same beginning, born in rebellion and violence. I know that there was war among the gods, and I know that HaSatan was the ring leader of the secessionists. Look up at the night sky, Bratu. Do you see all that dark space between the specks of light. The dark space originally was not there. Now, it exists. Disunity came about because there existed disagreement over reproduction. ( I also read and was greatly influenced in my early thinking by John Milton's "Paradise Lost". Indeed, John Milton was one of my early heroes. )

Set is one among many brothers and sisters. All are gods. All are powerful, but some are more powerful than others. The most powerful is the Father because He has and is willing to give the seed or sperm of life. The next powerful is the Mother because She receives the seed of life. Is Set in any kind of relationship that can bear children? If he cannot reproduce himself, why do you seek to be his son? Do you also want to be as one who cannot reproduce himself? What is the process by which the gods reproduce themselves? Can HaSatan reproduce himself/herself?

Man is the image of Elohim (God, a plural being). That means that we can learn alot about the gods by looking at man and his relationships, but remember and fasten this as an anchor in your mind, the physical man is only a reflection or shadow of Elohim, and this reflection bears about as much relationship to what Elohim really is as your reflection in a mirror does to what you really are. Your mirror image is not you, and so man is not Elohim. Do you believe that man can become Elohim? Do you believe that a finite, temporal being can become an infinite, eternal being. If so, how has Set helped you in this becoming? Has he given you any hints?

Sincerely, Spying

P.S. John Milton rejected the Christian/Grecian concept of the immortality of the soul. He suffered greatly in his life from the authorities for that rejection. Do you believe in the mortality of the soul? This is a side bar to our discussion, a big topic. I know that we agree about change, but I don't think we agree about death. I view death as both an end and a beginning.

[Sandy]

Hi Spying, you wrote:
Your description of Set made me immediately think of Eve. I see him as an Eve like being. Eve was a side of Adam. She was taken from him. Adam is a combination of earth (dust) and sky (spirit), and so is Eve. Now, I suspect you probably won't agree with this, but HaSatan in my mind is also feminine. His origin was in YAH. He came forth from YAH originally, as did Eve from Adam, as Lucifer, and then he became HaSatan through a bursting forth, a violent beginning, as did all the other rebellious. So, you views about Set have some basis in fact. The fundamental issue among the gods is the ability to reproduce. HaSatan cannot reproduce, and neither can any of the others. Only YAH can reproduce. So, both HaSatan and Set are the last of the Mohegans so to speak.

Sandy (Torah) replies:
Please explain what you mean by <b>Adam is a combination of earth (dust) and sky (spirit)</b>. What does spirit (ruwach 7307) have to do with sky (shachar 7834 or shameh 8064)?

What makes you believe that HaSatan cannot reproduce or neither can any of the others? Who exactly are the others?
===

[Spying]

Hi Sandy,

Thank you for your interest. Earth represents physicality and the sky represents spirituality in my perception (physical earth and sky are symbolic of spiritual things). Both earth and sky are physical, but I think of the sky as being part of the heavenly. I view it as the home of the wind which is truly symbolic for the spirit (John 3:6-13). YAH is spirit. YAH is not physical. Man is dust, physical, suffering earth who rises above the earth. Man is somewhat unique in that he like the sky is also a home of the spirit. So, man in a small way is a union of heaven and earth. We are the image of YAH (1 Corinthians 11:7). Messiah Yahushua right now is the express image (Hebrews 1:3) of YAH. So, you and I are a physical image of what Messiah now is. What Messiah now is, is this: He is the fulness (Colossians 1:19, Ephesians 1:23) which fills all in all. It is the purpose of YAH that all things be united in Messiah (Ephesians 1:10) both things in heaven and things on earth. What this says to me is that ultimately all physicality and all spirituality are united in Messiah. This is some of the reasoning behind my statement that man is a combination of earth and sky. Are you able to follow this reasoning?

For me to fully discuss with you right now the reproductive capabilities of HaSatan would be to get ahead of myself in my conversation with Bratu. You have asked a very good question! Can we explore this issue a little later?

I view HaSatan as a son or member of the Elohim (Job 1:6). There are many members of the Elohim. The princes are very powerful. Read about what goes on behind the scenes of our physicality in Daniel 10. Those spiritual beings are at war with each other. Revelations teaches that about a third of the stars of heaven stand with HaSatan (Revelation 12:4).

Sincerely, Spying

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Spying
Hi Sandy,

Thank you for your interest. Earth represents physicality and the sky represents spirituality in my perception (physical earth and sky are symbolic of spiritual things). Both earth and sky are physical, but I think of the sky as being part of the heavenly. I view it as the home of the wind which is truly symbolic for the spirit (John 3:6-13). YAH is spirit. YAH is not physical. Man is dust, physical, suffering earth who rises above the earth. Man is somewhat unique in that he like the sky is also a home of the spirit. So, man in a small way is a union of heaven and earth. We are the image of YAH (1 Corinthians 11:7). Messiah Yahushua right now is the express image (Hebrews 1:3) of YAH. So, you and I are a physical image of what Messiah now is. What Messiah now is, is this: He is the fulness (Colossians 1:19, Ephesians 1:23) which fills all in all. It is the purpose of YAH that all things be united in Messiah (Ephesians 1:10) both things in heaven and things on earth. What this says to me is that ultimately all physicality and all spirituality are united in Messiah. This is some of the reasoning behind my statement that man is a combination of earth and sky. Are you able to follow this reasoning?
<font color=blue>
Sandy replies:
Thank you; yes, I see where you are coming from.
</font>
For me to fully discuss with you right now the reproductive capabilities of HaSatan would be to get ahead of myself in my conversation with Bratu. You have asked a very good question! Can we explore this issue a little later?
<font color=blue>
Sandy replies:
Certainly. I will be more patient and look forward to following along with the posts between you and Bratu.
</font>
I view HaSatan as a son or member of the Elohim (Job 1:6). There are many members of the Elohim. The princes are very powerful. Read about what goes on behind the scenes of our physicality in Daniel 10. Those spiritual beings are at war with each other. Revelations teaches that about a third of the stars of heaven stand with HaSatan (Revelation 12:4).

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hello
Hope you had a merry christmas even if you don't celebrate christmas.

I can understand your reasoning to question me the way you are. It makes sense. Set was born of Geb and Nut he burst from her side creating chaos. The first C-Section. Hehe i guess even in that respect i am like him as i was also born in a C-Section. He is strong and a don't take crap sort way. War and Violent force are in his realm as is the Storm. The night fall is also considered his, the Darkness.

In my philosophy that darkness between the stars was there when Set was born and a God isn't really born but comes into being. But that is an impossible reality to fathom because we can't understand non-existance. When i look at the night sky i see peace. That Darkness has to be there or there would be no light. A balance of the two order and chaos is the only way the universe is harmonius and stays together.

Set could reproduce but never did as Osiris lay with his wife. The unity he would bring to another wouldn't create another force so there is no reason for that unity as it pertains to offspring. In part i seek to be his son because I was chosen not necessarily the other way around. I wouldn't argue that he is the most powerful but i wouldn't say he isn't either. My place and his is different. My reproduction is different from his. My births a child his would birth a force. Mine is to keep the species from dying out. He has no worries of dying out.

Aye i like the word Elohim translates as "Shinning Ones" doesn't it? Man isn't Elohim he is a creation of those Elohim. And i think we are very much like they are in that we are a force. We birth, we destroy, we preserve. I don't think a man can be a God because he isn't a God. I believe that when i die i will be back again. And when i am done here finally i will move on to what is next. It is a beginning we die several times in our life time. All to be reborn.

Bratu

[Spying]

Hi Everyone,

Below is a copy of my last e-mail to Bratu inviting him to participate at this forum. Everyone who is presently registered was invited to be here, but everyone can see that Bratu came here knowing that I desired that he open himself to all. That took courage. When we began our private conversation together, this forum had no beginning. Both ImAHebrew and myself would have stayed at the EliYah Forum if that format had not been changed. Everyone can see how my replies to Bratu began to slow down as this forum began to take shape in our minds behind the scenes. I want to personally thank all of you who have registered thus far. Most of you are veterans of many forum wars, and I am privileged to be registered in your company:


Hi Bratu,

I must apologize again for neglecting our conversation. I have something I want you to check out:

http://www.tzaddikim.org/forum/index.php

Maybe, if it is agreeable with you, we could reconstruct and continue our conversation on the Tzaddikim forum. If not, then we will continue privately. ImAHebrew, and Hyssop, and myself kindly request the honor of your presence. Please drop by and tell us what you think. We are personally inviting some of those we have met on the various forums before we open the forum to the general public. Of course, those who are invited first have first crack at their pseudonym if they should desire to register.

Looking forward to supping with you there.

Sincerely, Spying

So, as Stranger might say, "Let the foruming begin!" (Boy, do I ever like those vCodes. I have always wanted to be able to do this neat stuff! I wonder why it does not tell me how to do colors?)

Sincerely, Spying

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Set has given you a different perception of the universe than YAH has given to me. Moses was privileged to view the Creation, and this is what he relates concerning the ELOHIM and the Creation of the Earth:

Gen 1:1
1 In the beginning ELOHIM created the heaven and the earth. (KJV)
The Prophet Isaiah informs us that YAH formed the earth to be inhabited, that HE did not create it without form:

Isa 45:18
18 For thus saith the YAHWEH that created the heavens; ELOHIM himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain (without form), he formed it to be inhabited: I am the YAHWEH; and there is none else. (KJV)
Chaos did come to the Earth. We are informed by Moses:

Gen 1:2
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of ELOHIM moved upon the face of the waters. (KJV)
My dictionary defines chaos in this manner:

a state of things in which chance is supreme; esp: the confused unorganized state of primordial matter before the creation of distinct forms
a state of utter confusion

So, if the Earth was not originally created in a chaotic state, something did occur to introduce chaos into an orderly situation. Apparently, Set was the one who introduced chaos to order. YAH is an ELOHIM of order and form. Set from your testimony seems to prefer confusion and emptiness over order. At the very least, Set seems to have convinced you that order cannot exist without chaos. I am giving that some thought, and I am not saying at this point that you are wrong. I am merely attempting to give you a different perspective.

Consider darkness. All children are almost all universally afraid of the dark. Where did we get those feelings? Were you ever afraid of the dark? YAH says through Isaiah:

Isa 45:7
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the YAHWEH do all these things. (KJV)
Darkness is the absence of light. YAH likes light. He called it good:

Gen 1:4
4 And ELOHIM saw the light, that it was good: and ELOHIM divided the light from the darkness. (KJV)
Darkness in my opinion is created by withdrawing light. I know that this goes back to old argument: Which comes first, the chicken or the egg, but I am inclined to believe that light was first, and then came darkness because darkness flees in the presence of light.

So, Bratu, we do have the major components of a storm here: Light and darkness, Chaos and Order, War and Peace.

It is into this history of the ELOHIM that man is introduced.

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hello Spying

Now we get to new stuff.

My view of the universe is this: It is a fragile balance of Darkness and Light, Order and Chaos. I see none as coming before the other because in order for creation to exist it requires both at the same time. Hence in some beliefs chaos is the oldest thing in the universe. However creation wasn't until order was introduced at some level. Chaos is the only constant in the universe. An apparent paradox but it makes some sense.

Chaos would also imply no knowing what something is going to do. Unpredicability so to speak. Yes Set is an "Elohim" or God of Darkness and emptiness or the Oblivion. The state incomprehensible to men.

Yes all children are afraid of Darkness. As was i at a young age. But that is something i got over fairly quickly. Children fear this because it deprives us of the sense we put most emphasis on, our sight. We depend on our visual perception for almost everything. Darkness or the absence of light forces us to use our other sense. Our hearing and our smell and our sense of touch are enhanced when we can't see.
Intersting perspective does darkness flee in the presence of light or is it the other way around. We can "hold" light but we cannot "hold" darkness. Is it not just as plausible that one could put out light with darkness. But this is merely an arguement of mine is better than yours in the end. There isn't really a definitive answer i was just stating a differing opinion for that very sake.

We do have the components to a storm which makes me happy because that is friendly ground so to speak.
"A Man is a God in Ruins" -Emerson

Bratu

[simpleman]

Hello Bratu,

You may remember me from eliyah's forum. I hope that I am not considered as one that treated you badly. I am an honest person and as such can not hide my thoughts from you if we to converse.

My original question to you still stands. How am I to trust what you say when you tell me that your god is s-t. My small inquiry into the nature of s-t showed me that he values lies and cunning. Do you value truth in opposition to the value of your god? How can anyone have an honest, open dialogue with a person that does not value honesty?

This question is not raised as an aspersion of your character but a question of your values.

Simpleman

[Bratu McCaskey]

Ahh Simpleman

Set does value cunning. Lies on the other hand, deception i wouldn't say that at all. I personally am a very moral person. I have very high standards for myself. People's opinions of a God are what create the sense of falsehood or mistruth around a God. For instance if people's opinion changed as far as Yah is concerned they would create bad things about Yah reguardless of their truth. Set was associated with the red lands or the outside of the kingdom. And when invaders conquered Egypt people sort of got the bad idea. Plus the rise of the Wesir cult caused a further demonization. Set is more about getting things done so to speak. So hopefully that helps.

Bratu

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Everything common to man is within the experience of the ELOHIM. It is possible for man to reconstruct the history of the ELOHIM, and it is possible for man to discover the secrets of the ELOHIM. Messiah Yahushua understood what went on before him. That is how he could impact the future. The Hebrew Scriptures are of inestimable value in deciphering that hidden history according to the perspective of YAH. I am thankful to HIM for the Hebrew Scriptures and for Messiah who is the key to unlocking them.

I also am thankful to HIM that you have a mind that has considered the beginnings and for a mind that is open to these things. Judaism has a belief that HaSatan is in himself neither good nor evil. They view him as a servant of ELOHIM who is just doing his job of provided mankind with a basis for making a choice. Mankind is here to learn, and the Elohim are here to teach us. Hot and cold have to be available before one can understand the difference and make an informed choice between the two. Therefore, I think Judaism would agree with you about balance, but I am convinced there is more to it than that. It may very well be that darkness is the most ancient, and that chaos precedes order. It may very well be that darkness can extinguish light or that chaos can triumph over order. I think that the ELOHIM have experienced all of these things, but I believe that there is a pattern to their experience that is now weighted to tip the balance in a certain direction.

This pattern is revealed through the history of the Hebrew people, the servants of YAH. You can look at their history and see many of the experiences of YAH, and you can specifically look at Messiah Yahushua through his experience with his own people and see the exact experience or history of YAHWEH among the ELOHIM. Messiah said:

John 5:19-20
19 ..........Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. (KJV)

How did Messiah observe the Father? I believe that Messiah saw Father YAHWEH through the Hebrew Scriptures and through the history of his own people, and Messiah was following a pattern of behavior that he observed therein. When you think along these lines, the Book of Genesis is really not so much a history of man as it is a history of YAHWEH. Consider Genesis 1:2? Who or what do you think that the <B>deep</b> represents? The "deep" is symbolic of something? If darkness covered the face of the deep, is that good or bad? If you know what light and darkness represent, if you know what the deep represents, if you know what the face represents, then you have acquired an understanding of what occurred with the ELOHIM. Light did shine in darkness. ELOHIM reckons that event as something <B>good</b>. This is a judgment call. The ELOHIM determined that they liked light. By calling the light good, darkness is by that designation most certainly deemed to be bad. Then we see that the ELOHIM divided the light from the darkness? Did all the ELOHIM like this division? Is this a permanent arrangement? Look at what YAHWEH has to say about HIS covenant with the day and night:

Jer 33:20
20 Thus saith the YAHWEH; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;(KJV)

The point is this: The arrangement of dividing light and darkness cannot be broken. The day always begin with night, but then the light always arises and triumphs over darkness. Does this picture or arrangement make sense to you, Bratu?

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hello Spying

My thoughts are this. Darkness can extinguish light and chaos can conquer order, but the same applies in reverse. Hence the creation of a balance. I don't think either actually destroys the other they just take their place for the time being. I don't think the balance is weighted to a direction persay more so than it is not weighted hence it draws to the middle keeping all even.

The deep perhaps symbolizes the idea of nothing which is incomprehensible. I do not think however that Darkness and Light are symbolic of good and evil. Because both are good so to speak in that we need them both. When light and darkness were divided the kingdom of light and the Gods of that kingdom staked claim in that light. By that same token those who were the kingdom of darkness did the same. When all came to be they just split none rules the other.

Yes the day begins in Darkness. Yes the sun rises and sheds its light. BUT after that the day reverts to darkness once more. I don't feel that light is triumphing or being defeated. Set doesn't rule the day why would He want to that isn't His realm. They all have thier places. The division of night and day is just another piece of the balance.

Bratu
PS sorry if i didn't answer anything i am a bit groggy

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Good morning to you. For many, it is almost heretical to have these thoughts, but I can accept the idea that YAH learns, and that HE does learn in much the same fashion that we learn, that is, through experience. I do not believe that YAH ever chooses to do what HE knows is wrong, as we have done, but I do believe that YAH can look into HIS past and very well say: I should not have done this or that, or I should have done this or that. Thus, willingness to act and willingness to take responsibility for one's actions is also light. So, the more right action YAH is doing, the more light there is. Of course, this only is the case if light is a symbol for right action.

I think you have symbolized the deep adequately. I vary slightly in my thinking. I view it as the consciousness of the ELOHIM. When darkness covers the face of your comprehension or consciousness what state are you in? Generally, are we not considered to be asleep? Thus, following along in this thinking, the time of darkness in Genesis 1:2 would be a period of inactivity for YAH. What could have caused this inactivity? Maybe the ELOHIM were tired?

Messiah Yahushua said concerning HaSatan:
John 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (KJV)In the beginning ELOHIM created the heavens and the earth. Who did HaSatan murder from the beginning? There was no man around at the beginning. Man was not even a twinkle in the eye of YAH when YAH laid the foundation of the earth. So, who did HaSatan murder?

The only one slain from the foundation of the world is the Lamb:
Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.(KJV)
That murder and the LIE are the foundation of this world. YAHWEH ELOHIM is the lamb slain. So, how can an eternal being be said to have died?
Gen 1:2
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.(KJV)Never fear for YAHWEH:
Job 12:22
22 He discovereth deep things out of darkness, and bringeth out to light the shadow of death.(KJV)If you are are unified being, and someone destroys that unity, does not the unified being die? <B>THE LIE</b> was the issue that brought about the disunity, the death of the lamb. <B>THE LIE</b> is simply this: Anyone can disobey YAHWEH ELOHIM and live. HaSatan told the same <B>LIE</b> to Eve. Mankind believes this same <B>LIE</b> to this day. Do you also believe that you can disobey YAHWEH ELOHIM, Bratu, and live?

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hello Spying

Ok to begin with i don't think i agree with your Connection. Granted if Yah can look back and say i should or shouldn't have done that, that doesn't relate that to the light. The idea of an Omnipotent God looking back and saying he did something wrong is a contradiction of terms. Omnipotent implies all knowing as well hinting that He would know what was going to happen if he did or didn't do something. Also implying that he knows what is right all the time. Unless we shake that idea then i have to disagree.

What we consider is not so. Generally speaking throughout history darkness is bad because it isn't understood. So saying that we are shrouded doesn't necessarily mean we are asleep however it does have this conotation. I see just as much to offer in dark as light. Light speaking of day teaches us to use our eyes primarily. Where as dark teaches us to use our other senses. They both enrich us thereby you could say one is being "endarkened" as well as "elightened". Maybe the Elohim were tired maybe it was time for others to do their work.

I don't think it means the Lamb truthfully. I think it is a metaphorical statement to say he murders the truth. Destroys the truth. Hides it.

On the Lie. On a story level was HaSatan lieing? No he wasn't. He still lives and he told the lie. There are consequences to that lie according to the story but even so those who lie are not dead just punished with damnation. Technicality but not death. Do i believe that i can disobey Yahweh or the Elohim (Elohim refering to Yah) and live? I know i can because i disobey that book and word daily in my beliefs. Tell me this do you believe you can disobey Kali, or Shiva, or Wotan and live? Yes you do because you don't fear them or really believe in them. For that very same reason i believe that i can Disobey Yahweh because Yah isn't my God, my Father, or my savior. I have to believe he exists and believe he has something to do with me before i fear him. Which is why you don't fear Wotan or Loki, or Typhon. I didn't find my beliefs with the basis of, how can i be most wrong and furthest from the truth. It had more to do with asking an honest question of myself. Do i belive i can disobey my God and live, yes but i am not sure how worth living it would be. Because i would be turning my back on a very important part of myself.

Bratu

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Good morning to you! When did I ever tell you that YAH was omniscient? If YAH is always omniscient (Bratu, I had to change from omnipotent. I was thinking of omniscient but used omnipotent by mistake), why was HE surprised by the level of corruption of HIS good spirit by mankind before the Flood? Why did YAH repent of making man, if YAH did not feel that He was wrong in doing so?

In the story of the recreation of the Earth related to us in Genesis 1, we have been thus far struggling with that story and applying it symbolically. We have been looking for the hidden meaning behind the physical creation. If the Deep is symbolic of something, then light and darkness are also symbolic of something. I have suggested to you that light is symbolic of right action. I base that suggestion on this scripture:
Prov 6:23
23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life: (KJV)Actually, Bratu, perhaps I was getting ahead of myself by suggesting that light is a symbol for right action. When I look at light, it is more a symbol for instruction. Light shows us the way. What does darkness show us?

I don't have all of this figured out yet, but it seems to me that right action could be better symbolized by the dry ground. If we walk in the Torah (light), we are walking on something solid. We have good footing. It takes great faith to walk on water. So, water may be a symbol for all the Word of YAH which is also light.

YAH is most certainly your Father whether you believe it or not! Neither Set, nor HaSatan, nor anyone else gave to you the good spirit within you that makes you alive and distinctly you. That spirit was given to you by YAH. We all possess it, and that possession makes us all brothers because we all have the same origin and originator. You believe in Set because he has made himself known to you. Did he make himself known to you as your creator? How could the el of emptiness create a container of the spirit like yourself if he really believed in emptiness? Set is the el of emptiness and chaos because deep down he respects and fears those thing. So, he seeks to control them, but he is afraid to experience them himself.

This is not so with YAHWEH. It is written concerning Messiah Yahushua:
Phil 2:7
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (KJV)The phrase, but made himself of no reputation can be translated "but he emptied himself". The verb used is "kenoo". It simply means "to empty". When and how did Messiah empty himself? I believe that YAH did so when HE breathed HIS spirit into Adam. YAH held nothing back. In Adam all of mankind were given their portion of the spirit by YAH. Every human being that has ever lived, and every human being that yet will live, received their portion of the spirit when YAH emptied HIMSELF. A portion of that same spirit was even allocated to YAH himself. YAH became a man, and this man is known to me as Messiah Yahushua, my foundation. Is Set, the el of emptiness, also willing to empty himself and become a man, Bratu?

Sincerely, Spying


[Edited by Spying on 01-13-2001 at 04:12 PM]

[Sandy]

Originally posted by Spying
Hi Bratu,

<snip>

Set is the el of emptiness and chaos because deep down he respects and fears those thing. So, he seeks to control them, but he is afraid to experience them himself.

This is not so with YAHWEH. It is written concerning Messiah Yahushua:
Phil 2:7
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: (KJV)The phrase, but made himself of no reputation can be translated "but he emptied himself". The verb used is "kenoo". It simply means "to empty". When and how did Messiah empty himself? I believe that YAH did so when HE breathed HIS spirit into Adam. YAH held nothing back. In Adam all of mankind were given their portion of the spirit by YAH. Every human being that has ever lived, and every human being that yet will live, received their portion of the spirit when YAH emptied HIMSELF. A portion of that same spirit was even allocated to YAH himself. YAH became a man, and this man is known to me as Messiah Yahushua, my foundation. Is Set, the el of emptiness, also willing to empty himself and become a man, Bratu?

Sincerely, Spying

<font color=green>Hi Spying
I have a question concerning the statement "YAH became a man", and this man is known to me as Messiah Yahushua, my foundation. Do you have or know of a Scripture from the OT (Hebrew Scriptures) to verify such a statement?

I personally do not know of any Scripture that tells us that YAH will be born of a human woman and become a man known as the messiah (The anointed descendant of king David).

But there are Scriptures stating that YAH will raise up a man from the line of David to be king over his people, also know as the messiah.</font>

<font color=navy>Isaiah 11
1) And a shoot goes out from the stump of Jesse, and a branch out of his roots will bear fruit.
2) And the spirit of YHUH will rest on him...
3) And he is made to breathe in the fear of YHUH...
10) And it will be in that day, the root of Jesse that stands as the peoples signal, nations will inquire of him, and his place of rest will be glorified.
12) And he will raise a signal to the nations, and WILL GATHER the outcast of Yisrael and the scattered of Yahudah, COLLECTING them from the four corners of the earth.

Jeremiah 23
5) Behold, the days come, says YHUH that I will raise to David a branch of rightness and a king will reign and act wisely, and will do justice and righness in the earth.
6) In his days Yahudah will be saved and Yisrael will dwell safely. And this is his name by which he will be called, Rightness of YHUH.

Jeremiah 30
9) But they will serve YHUH their Elohym and David their king whom I will raise up to them.

Ezekiel 34
23) And I will raise up over them one shepherd and he shall feed them; My servant David, he shall feed them and he shall be their shepherd
24) And I YHUH will be their Elohym and my servant David shall rule among them, I YHUH have spoken

Ezekiel 37
22) And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel and one king will be for a king to all of them and no longer will they be two nations and no longer will they be split into two kingdoms
23) ...I will save them...and I will cleanse them. They shall be my people and I will be their Elohim
24) And my servant David will be king over them</font>

[simpleman]

duplicate

[Edited by simpleman on 01-15-2001 at 06:00 PM]

[simpleman]

Hey guys,

I just decided that I don't believe in gravity. I am going to jump off of a tall building and should not be hurt right?

What any of us believe is only valid in so much as it fits reality. This is not the matrix.

Pretty Simple. :)


Simpleman

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hello All

I am replying to everyone :).

Simpleman perhaps your answer is so simple i don't get it. I understand what you mean i suppose however i am not sure what you are refering to when you made your statement. Just wondering if you could clear that up for me.

Spying...alright here goes;
First off i believe there was a flood. However, i don't believe that it killed all but one family. To many varying versions of that story who all have the same ring of truth. The Flood being the only definite.
As i said Light is symbolic of the forced visual representation, where as darkness teaches us of our other senses. Now there are two distinct types of Darkness. The First being the Dark of night. The second being the common reference of the Darkness within the soul.

Here in lies the most significant problem. You say Yah is my father I say he is not. HOWEVER, i do not say Yah is not your father. Do we see a difference here? Set isn't only emptiness. Emptiness is as vast as infinity. There is nothing empty about a storm. He doesn't try to control those things He IS those things. Yes He respects himself. He isn't afraid to experience Himself. I do not believe Yah is my father. I don't believe he is my God. Just as you don't believe that RA has anything to do with you. In all religions including yours there are the three basic Gods, The Creator, The Preserver, and The Destructor.
We all have them. There is still a gap to cover i fear there is no way to bridge it though.

Bratu

[simpleman]

Bratu,

I was responding to this:

You wrote:
Do i believe that i can disobey Yahweh or the Elohim (Elohim refering to Yah) and live? I know i can because i disobey that book and word daily in my beliefs.


I was simply saying that the truth must be found regardless of our opinions. What you or I think is only important as it relates the truth.

Simpleman

[Bratu McCaskey]

Simpleman

Very wise words and agreed. The variation lies in what i see as the truth and what you see as the truth.

Bratu

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Thank you for your patience, and thank you for your response. I got tough with you in my last post, and the longer you took in replying to me, the more worried I became. Your pattern in both our private and public conversations has been to reply very quickly. So, I was happy and relieved to see your reply. I am not very speedy. I am definitely not as fast as you, but I am working to improve my speed.

I have more history to relate, but still I must admit that I have no way of proving to you many of the things that I am relating to you. I could be wrong. So, bear that in mind as we converse. I know that you have an open mind. I know that you have a willingness to look at different perspectives. So, I want to continue.

If YAH did empty HIS spirit into mankind, what was HIS purpose? YAH is at war, and YAH fights in a certain manner, and HE fights to win. HIS effort is all out. HE holds nothing back. When YAH breathed HIS spirit into mankind, it was a death for HIM. I believe that this death is the course of action that YAH wanted all the ELOHIM to follow from the very beginning. It is what YAH does to perpetuate HIMSELF. Periodically, HE falls to the ground and dies. Out of that death, out of that emptiness, out of that scattering or dispersion, a rebirth occurs. It is amazing to me that YAH is willing to tear HIMSELF apart so to speak and divide HIMSELF up into billions of pieces by giving HIS good spirit to each of us, and all along have the faith that YAH is reborn again. This is especially amazing to me when I consider that YAH was willing to subject HIS spirit to flesh knowing that the flesh would automatically corrupt that good spirit. This is also amazing considering that your enemies, powerful beings like HaSatan and Set, are also now in this ballgame seeking to thoroughly corrupt the good spirit that YAH has placed within each of us. Should they succeed, will the good spirit of YAH ever be able to reassemble as a renewal. Will light come forth from darkness? No, HaSatan and Set hold the power of death over YAH. YAH cannot reassemble because YAH is good, and there is no good spirit left to reassemble. There is no one good, no not one. All alike have gone astray. YAH is in a pickle, isn't HE?

What do the Egyptians have to do with all of this? As I see it, they practiced the philosophy of HaSatan and Set. I am including Set here in opposition to YAH because if Set was loyal, you and I would not even be aware of his personal name. There are many powerful beings with YAH. We don't for the most part know their names. They always present themselves as servants of YAH, and YAH is one. The rebellious attempt to make a name for themselves.

What is so bad about the philosophy of HaSatan? HaSatan believes that he can renew himself without dissipation. HaSatan believes that he can hold himself intact and cross over to the other side without giving up anything or missing a beat. That is the religion of Egypt, and it is directly opposite the way of YAH. I gotta go, my friend. Thanks for being patient with me.

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Spying

Not sure what to answer with didn't seem to be many questions in that, that were rhetorical. The philosophy of Set and Satan are a bit different so lumping them together is a bit unfair. I don't see Set as being rebelious to Yah because i rebellion as to a superior or as to an authority, and thus i don't see Yah as an authority to Set. I also don't see Egypt (which in despite what might surprise you, isn't my center point. I would say i am more based in other philosophy) as being an Opposition to Yah on a fundemental level. The idea of Ma'at is very, very closely related to the laws of Moses. The 10 commandments. The pure opposition to Yah, in my eyes, from a story stand point would be Satan. Not necesarily who is good and who is bad just opposition. That is all i have for now give me more to go on.

Bratu

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

Good morning to you! If you are light, and that light is dissipated and scattered and hid amongst clay vessels, how can the light again be gathered? If YAH, who is light, did empty HIMSELF into mankind, then HIS light must eventually spring forth from darkness. The scattered light must be gathered again, but if there is no light, if the light has been thoroughly corrupted and turned to darkness, in order for light to again spring forth from darkness, a savior must come to show the way. YAHWEH gave up what HE was, and YAHWEH HIMSELF became a man in order to show us the way. This man in my belief was Messiah YAHUSHUA. When YAHWEH emptied HIMSELF into mankind, HE reserved for HIMSELF a small portion of the HIS spirit. This small portion was born into this world as a man with no advantage over any other man. Messiah YAHUSHUA was made like us in every respect. Through him, the faith and hope and love of YAHWEH did spring forth to this darkened world. Why?

YAH is at war, and through Messiah YAHUSHUA, YAHWEH has already won the war. This is why the wrath of HaSatan is so great. Through the work of Messiah YAHUSHUA, HaSatan and his legions have been replaced. They are now redundant. If Set was part of the rebellion, he is now also redundant. Satan cannot keep the light from gathering. The light has already been gathered, and the day will come in which the light will manifest itself in the twinkle of an eye, and darkness will be no more. I know that you believe that darkness is necessary, but darkness is only necessary until the lights are turned on.

YAHWEH did place HIS spirit in all of us. We live, and we die. I think this is an eternal principle: Whatever you give away, always comes back to you. YAHWEH gave HIS spirit away, but when the recipients of this spirit die, our spirits go back to the very ELOHIM who gave them in the first place. As it is written:
Eccl 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto ELOHIM who gave it. (KJV)Your spirit, my spirit, the spirits of all who have ever lived, they all go back to YAHWEH.

Now, as I have noted to you in my last post, YAHWEH does have a problem. HE gave HIS good spirit away to mankind as good, but it now comes back to HIM corrupted and evil. What must happen to that spirit before it can again shine. It must be subjected to a bunch of different processes all designed to restore the spirit to its original glory. It was polluted. Now, it must be purified. It began clean; it became unclean. It must be cleansed. It must be sanctified. A portion of it was sold. Now, a portion of it must be redeemed.

You were raised a traditional Christian. You should recognize the names of some of these various processes. They are all intimately connected with restoring the original luster or glory of the light. This is the primary work of Messiah YAHUSHUA. He in faith followed a plan detailed and written down for him by YAHWEH ELOHIM. That plan is contained in the Hebrew Scriptures. The fundamental details of the plan are contained in the Torah. I look upon it as a secret battle plan. The Law showed Messiah YAHUSHUA exactly what he must accomplish in order to gather and restore the light to its original glory:
John 17:1-5
1 These words spake YAHUSHUA, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, <font color="red">Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true ELOHIM, and YAHUSHUA MESSIAH, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. </font color>(KJV)I believe, Bratu, that you and I are among the lucky ones chosen to glorify MESSIAH YAHUSHUA.

Sincerely, Spying

[DeAnna]

Shalom Everyone,
May Yah be with you.

Dear brother Spying, how wonderful it is to be here. How thankful I feel toward Yah that he has brought us all here together to reason and seek truth. It is simply lovely to even just see your name. (smile) Give our family my love, and tell them I miss them all, and all are ever in my heart and thoughts. How I so look forward to the spring, and to once again speak to you face to face.
All my love... D'

First just a scripture or two that came to mind as I read through all of the posts
(e-mails) From here on out, this is mostly written to our new friend Bratu.
I say friend due to the peaceful interaction, and the temperance of the spirit you show forth Bratu. We call on different names, but the fruits of the spirit seem to be the same. Okay... here goes. (hope you don't mind)

KJV 1 Kings 8:12 Then spake Solomon, YAH said that he would dwell in the THICK DARKNESS.

Ex. 20:21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the "thick darkness" WHERE YAH WAS.

"Lo' the KINGDOM IS WITHIN YOU." (Luke 17:21)

What "is" the "Kingdom"? >> Righteousness, peace, and joy. << (Rom. 14:17)
And it can only be found "within".

These are things I felt we had in common Bratu. There is more, but ... I have an "agenda" (smile).

I figure this.... surely it does little good to quote scripture from a book to someone that doubts the validity of that book. I too was in this position. If I may...

At 24 I "gave up" on the bible. Said to myself... How do i know this isn't just man trying to control everyone? As I have a rebellious spirit, and firmly believe in; "live and LET LIVE". control to me is synomonous to "oppression". I've no desire to control, and even less desire to be controlled. That is by man anyway.

Shortly after I "gave up" the Book... (after reading it since I was in fifth grade)
I was led to a "class" that showed the bible in a way I had never seen. In a way that "proved" to me, the "validity" of what was written therein. And then I came to see how man has "used" it (truth) for evil.

In Exodus... Yah takes 12 chapters to show forth in DETAIL the making of the tabernacle. He makes it quite clear that it HAD to be made THIS WAY. And no one was allowed ANY interjection.
This class showed me "How" this tabernacle laid out in the bible, was identical to our human bodies. And "How" the functions of the vessels and priests lined up with the functions of our organs... it really blew my mind. I have a detailed paper on the "Tabernacle" that I will be glad to send you if you are interested. But just to "touch" on a few things... it is along the lines of;

It took exactly nine months for the tabernacle to be built in the wilderness...
Nine months for our tabernacle to be made.
There are 207 pillars, boards, bars that hold the tabernacle together.
When we are born we have 207 bones in our bodies, before the last two of our spine fuse together. (which has another significance)
The tabernacle is made of 3 compartments;
Most Holy place
Holy place
Court round about.

They correspond to our 3 cavities;
Head cavity
chest cavity
abdominal cavity

There are nine vessels in the tabernacle
We have nine systems

In the Most Holy place, the ten commandments are placed in the ark, which sits at the base of the "mercy seat" that govern the body of Israel.
in our head cavity, at the base of the skull we have a pituitary gland that secretes 10 hormones that govern our body. And cause our organs to secrete their own hormones.
In the most Holy place there are two arch angels; Gabriel and Michael.
One is a "messanger, one is the "warrior".
Our brain has two functions; One carries the message, One causes the "action".

This is just a "taste"... it truly gets quite detailed from head to toe. (smile).

But there is more...
Outside of the tabernacle... There are "precepts" in all of the bible stories that I have been shown. Example; Death, Burial, Resurrection, 3 and 4 or 40 or 400 (o's are just place holders). Anyway...

Moses was born unto a "death" decree.
He was put into an ark "covered" with bull pitch and slime (burial)
He was then put into the waters brink where the pharaohs daughter had him pulled out.
(now "resurrection" means; a comming forth with change. This is why when we plant a seed, it does not come out one big seed, but a tree or flower or plant, etc.)
Moses went in a "hebrew" and came out an "egyptian".
At > 3 < months old.
He then lived like a king for "40" years.

Moses then slayed an egyptian (death)
He then "buried" him in the sand
then he fled to the land of media (on the 3rd. day)
where he came across the daughters at the well, who called him and egyptian,
but we now know that it is no longer Moses the egyptian, but Moses the Hebrew (showing forth that "change").
He lived as a shepherd for "40" years.

The Flood:
People are drowning. (death)
Noah and his family were "buried" in the Ark. (It says Yah's finger shut the door)
Then they came out on "new" ground AFTER sending out a bird for the THIRD time,
and it rained for 40 days and nights.

It goes on and on. But what does all this mean?
For one it is saying; death, burial, resurrection; these "3" point to Yahshua (4).
Why do I say "4" is Yahshua?
Well... In the "4th" day, Yah put the "SUN" in the sky.
In the 4 thousanth year, came walking the "Son" on the earth.
And a day is a thousand years, and a thousand years is a day". (2nd. Peter 3:8)

But there is more...
If the kingdom is "within"... then we should not have to go to a written book to see this or find this. In fact, if Yah is creator of all... would not all of creation preach His word? And so it does. For all things take on the circle of life. The "DBR" (death, burial, res.) so to speak. All of nature (including us) takes on a "death, burial, resurrection; 3 and 4.
The seasons do. Fall (death) Winter (burial) Spring (resurrection), Summer (flourishin)
each are approx. "3" mos. long, and there are "four" seasons.

Our "cells" take on the same thing, our digestive track does as well, in fact even our glands and hormones do. And so does our "thought pattern".
our very lives are made up of "DBR'S, 3's AND 4's."
Anyone that has lived anytime at all know our lives are made up of ups and downs.
Things "tend" to happen in "3s". and every 4 years our minds enter into a "new" transition.
This is easier seen if you have children.
Ages; 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40 etc. All tend to take us into a "new" level of understanding and abilities.

There is more...
There is also the "two brother" precept. Always in the bible stories the elder looses his inheritance to the younger. What this tiplifies is;
We all know the "carnal" or the physical first. Satan (adversary) is the "prince of this world" or the prince of the flesh. It is the prince of this world that we all know "first".
But the flesh will loose it's inheritance to the spirit.

There is more....
Yahshua (the Word) Says "Lo' I come in the volume of the book, it is written of me". He also says; "I've come to FULFILL all that was written.
Example;
The children of Israel and Moses were "baptized" unto the cloud and the red sea (1st. Cor. 10:1)
Then they come unto the mount. Where Moses goes up into the mount and hears and recieves of the spirit of Yah. (we know he received of His spirit because his face shown so bright he had to wear a veil. (another significance toward something else as well)
Moses was up there for 40 days and nights and does not eat or drink.
Mean while the children of Israel are tempted of Satan and create the golden calf.

Okay.... Mat. 3
Yahshua gets babtized.
We then hear the voice of Yah, and his spirit descending. Then He goes straight way into the desert where he does not eat or drink for 40 days and nights, and then is tempted by Satan.

See... "All things", are an allegory. Even the days of creation;
In the first day of creation, Yah divided the "light from the darkness".
In the first thousand years of man, the first thing that happened was Adam and Havah (Eve) were cast out or separated from Yah and the garden... also Cain slew His brother, again, a "seperation". Because Cain's countenance fell, or was darkened.
Then Cain was cast out. Not to mention, they could "die" now. Adam live 930 years. (1000 years is a day and a day is a 1000 years.) 70 years short of a day.

The 2nd. day of creation, Yah divided the waters.
In 1766 (according to scripture) was the flood, where again the waters were divided.
Water can also symbolically mean "doctrine" or "covenant". Also in this day (2000/2nd.) day, Yah made a covenant with Noah.

The 3rd. day of creation; Yah brought forth "seed".
In the 3000th. year, (2139) Abraham was born, whom is told later that through his "seed" shall all the nations be blessed.

4th. day; "lights" in the "firmament" (arch/vault in the sky; heavens)
Sun, moon, stars;
4th. day Yahshua (son/ "light of the world") comes walking the earth. And calls his disciples the "bride" (moon). Moon is on a 28 day cycle, like a woman is.
We as the bride have no light of our own, but reflect the light of Yahshua (the word). Like the moons' light is a "reflection" of the suns. etc.
5th. day;
All things were born and brought forth in the "waters". and filled the "seas". In revelations we learn that "seas" are mulititudes of tongues and nations and peoples. After Yahshua was crucified, we were then in the "5th. day", where doctrine was being revealed and people were being "born again", before the great "flood" of doctrines were loosed from Satan (rev. 12) and christianity became a lie.

6th. day; "let us make man in our own image".
Thus we are now in the "6000" year. Where Yah is indeed making us in "his own image", only now it is through heart and mind. (The kindgdom is within you).
And in the 7th. day He shall rest. and on the 8th. day, we shall all resurrect.

There is more....
But I'll stop now. Sorry so long... I'm notorious for that. I hope I didn't bore you.

There is more detail to all I showed you, but just tried to give you a taste of what was shown to me, and I tell you true... it has changed my life. It was the FIRST time I truly found "substance" as to what and why to believe.

Welcome to our "world" Bratu, I hope you stay a while.
From my heart,
D'

[Spying]

Hi Little Sister,

I am so happy and thankful to YAH to see your words on the Lo Ammi Forum. I wept when I saw your name and read your words. Your perception of Bratu is the same as mine. You, sense as well as I, that although he believes in darkness that he is not himself evil. You know that we are going to learn from him, and he from us.

You know instinctively without us having consulted together that the "agenda" is the DBR of Messiah Yahushua. Messiah sent you here at this time to help in its presentation. You are most welcome here, dear sister. Please hang your hat. I too eagerly await the spring when we will again see you face to face.

With much love for you in his service, I am sincerely your brother, Spying. Oh, I am so happy!

[Sandy]

Hi DeAnna
I don't know if you remember me from EliYah's. I was banned along with Moses and Shlameal.

You wrote:

I have a detailed paper on the "Tabernacle" that I will be glad to send you if you are interested.
Would you be willing to send me a copy, and also more details of the other things that you wrote.

[Spying]

Hi Sandy,

This thread seems to be experiencing a technical problem in that sometimes posts are not registering on the windows prior to the thread window. This has happened to me several times. I would make a post, and it would only show up on the thread just like your post to DeAnna. We don't know how to fix this occurrence just yet.

For now I would advise everyone to check and see if their new post shows up on the Tzaddikim Discussion Forums window after making the new post and after going there and refreshing. If it does not, go back to the thread and delete your new post and then repost. This is what I have done on several occasions to make the new post register.

Sincerely, Spying

[DeAnna]

A big, big, big SMILE to You my dear brother Spying!
Oh I have missed you so! You know I'll be hanging my hat here dear brother! How wonderful to read your reply.
Yes... I do see the spirit in Bratu. (don't mean to talk about you in the 3rd. sense Bratu, I know your here.) smile.
When I read Bratu say; "Must be true to my heart"... O' how I can relate!!!

Gonna write a bit to Sandy, But will post more later...Okay? Love you so much Spying. Give Imahebrew and Ken(s) and Mary(s) (giggle) and EVERYONE my love. Talk to you soon.
D'

Hey Sandy!! (Torah) YES! I remember you girl! How are you? Hope you are great! Sorry took so long to reply... been gone all day... just got home and made dinner.
Sandy... I immediately went to my files to pull the tabernacle doc. and it's GONE!!! Everytime Don adds a new program to this pc, I tend to LOSE everything. (so sad)
boo hoo.
But not to worry... I'll write it again... Knowing Yah, it will be new and improved! (smile).
This might take a day or two, as there is a lot to look up. But hang with me sister... I'll get it to you.
Maybe I'll post it on another thread so anyone can copy it.
It is pretty wonderful. And I'll write more on all the other stuff too!
the days of creation I just wrote last night for the first time... it seemed to just all fall together... when I was looking up the scriptures for "time" tables... I went RIGHT TO IT! It was awesome! Yah is so Good!

Well... gonna go get started. So excited to be here.
So wonderful to see you again "Torah", (big smile).
Talk to you soon.

Your sis,
D'

[Sandy]

Hi DeAnna
It is good to see you again too :)

I am sorry to hear that your files were lost and you will have to do all that work over again :(
Is it possible for them to be saved on floppy disks to prevent totally loosing them again?

Have you had contact with followers of Witness Lee and Watchmen Nee (Living Stream Ministries)?

I take it you are no longer in Hawaii?

Even though we may have different views I always look forward to your posts.

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hello again

Well first off i get the feeling you are trying to kill me... that was a huge post with all sorts of things to have to reply to. I apologize for the slowness of my responses things have gotten a bit hectic around here (place i was working for closed their business, amoung other things)so things have been interesting. So i will give it a go now and see what i have to say cause even i don't exactly know until i type it. By the way it is nice to make your acquaintence D.

You hit one major issue i was having on the head. It really does very little good to quote something that i don't necessarily agree with the validity of. Thought i would put that out in the open.
I didn't give up on the bible persay as much as i felt i was choking and drowning. I was hiding my head under the proverbial pillow so as to not look at what was going on inside of me. I just decided to open my eyes to other things and see what i thought of other things.
I don't necessarily see how the bible has been used thus far as evil. There are two distinct types of people in the world. People such as my self who need no book, law, or person to tell me what is right and wrong. I am perfectly capable of deciding what i think is right and wrong reguardless of what the masses would say. Most are not this way. I think that people such as my self along time ago realized that there has to be something else to keep the other kind in check otherwise there no balance. The church and that book offered them something to be afraid of but some sort of incentive reward as well for doing things that aren't bad. Sort of like hey...if i am good according to this then good things happen and it must be right look at all the people who have similar ideas. I agree with the use of the bible to create such an institution to keep people from killing each other or things of that nature or teaching then what is important in terms of Morals.

I will be the first to agree that the Tabernacle theory and such is very interesting. The best explanation i have for that is that people back then knew alot more than they are given credit for. They could do many things then that are a mystery to us now. So as to the human body my best explanation is that they taylored things to that. To what they decided they knew of the human body.

The idea of the number of three and four isn't a monotheistic origin and is many many different religions and mythologies. Set for instance was born on the third day of creation according to Kemetic faith. Many other things go in trio. However the number 2 is also prevelent in a balance sense. Order-Chaos, Night-Day, Life-Death. Duality. Where is the common link of Christian Jewish/ Monotheistic doctrines following the "Yah". All have the trio of: Creator, Preserver, Destructor. No religion is exempt. I think that number three was a realized phenomenon and they bent things to fit what they were told. Humans make understandings, myself included but if they don't understand something they weren't typically willing to accept it they tried to explain it the only way they knew how which was religion.
The seasons however and the number of months per season is based on the Gregorian or Roman calendar. Which is flawed hence why we have leap years which means the seasons aren't quite the same length everytime or anything like that. The obvious Birth-Life-Decline-Death is the only tieing thing.

Life does have the strange way of working in threes this i know all to well considering i was born in the third month on the 31st on the 3rd year of a decade. On a full moon no less, but that is another matter. However what about those of us out there i am sure i am not alone atleast i hope not although it would surprise me, who don't cycle in the four year period? There are a few of us who transform more along the lines of 5 or 6 or even more. I think it was Spying once who when speaking to Eliyah on my behalf, which i thank him for considering Eliyah wouldn't even offer me a way to defend myself because my posting rights were revoked, and he defined autism (SP?). This i felt was the most accurate representation of my mind in all reality. Inside it all makes sense but outside i don't know that it does to everyone else.
We "know" satan first however the "carnal" as you put it or the physical is just as important as the spiritual. There needs to be a center. Everyone needs to have that center, that focus point that binding. We all need the balance.

One thing i need you to explain to me is the concept of time here? That i don't follow, are you suggesting that the world is only like 5000 years old? You are going to have to explain that.

Not boring me hoping you have plenty more to say and hope that i am not boring you. So...well till then.

Bratu

[DeAnna]

Shalom Sandy,

You know I thought I HAD put it on disc. But unfortunately, it's not there. I've been working on it though. Still not done, but will post it and send it to you as sooooooon as I am. :)
I believe "all" things are truly for a reason. Every little tee tiny thing. (smile). So... no doubt it's a blessing. ugh... (giggle, giggle... just a "funny" there.)

Talk to ya soon,
Yah bless you Sandy,
D'

Shalom Bratu,

Nice to make your aquaitence too. (smile) I guess in a sense I am trying to "kill" you. (haha)
For all things must die before they can resurrect. (smile) I think you did a GREAT job though...
You covered 'bout everything... Except the fulfillment's... but still, Wow! Most don't cover a fraction of my posts.
but no doubt you can see why... well... may I do it again?
(laugh)
I'm slow too... not to worry if it takes you time to respond. I home school a 6, and 8 yr. old, and help a 15 and 17 year old. Takes a lot of time... not to mention the 'House'... so... truly... I understand "busy". I am "mom" of only the 8 yr. old boy though.
But love 'em all like my own. They are amazingly "kind". Well... anyway....
Okay...
The "evil" I spoke of was not really the "bible" but things like the "crusades" and the inquisition etc. That's what I meant by that.

We are in agreement when it comes to knowing inside what is right and wrong. That is why I posted "The kingdom is within you" scripture. It also says in Jeremiah 31:33 >
"But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith Yah, I will put my law on their >> INWARD << parts, and write it on their hearts...."
32 "And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know Yah: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith Yah; for I will forgive their iniquity and remember their sin no more."

Hate to keep quoting scripture to ya pal... but... just showing ya what I see in scripture that you already know in your heart/mind. and last I checked... this is a "bible" forum... hehe.
Not trying to be "smart", more like "justifying". (smile)

Do we "need" the bible to find, know, have "truth". No.
Does it "help", I certainly believe so. At least since I have seen how it is all symbolic, and how it all lines up. Sure has increased my faith... in a way I never knew. Can't really explain that though. So... not gonna go there. :)

Tabernacle; people "back then" deserve more credit then given. > agreed.
But... (smile). I do not believe they had such things as x -rays, computers etc. If so I think we would have found such things as being ancient... not just hieroglyphics and bones... etc.
Egypt was very good at the "body", and knowing what was in the body. When they buried the dead, they often put their organs in their side. But I do not believe they were able to know the "functions" of those organs. I don't believe they had things like microscopes to examine blood, and how the cells worked etc. Or that there was a continuous oxidation in the digestive tract. Or that the heart pumped 12 pints of blood a day etc. So.. yeah.. they knew a lot, but I don't think man knew all of this and then symbolically wrote the bible accordingly, awaiting for someone to figure it out. The point about it all is;
"we" are the temple in which the "spirit"/ creator/ god(s) dwell. I say "Yah". You say "Set".

This doesn't bother me. I do not believe anyone is "saved" or not saved due to "phonetics".
This by the way is not that old of a revelation for me.
My prayers were answered in the phonetic sound of "Jesus" just like they are in "Yahshua".
For all I know the "original" name was something other then Yah even. For they changed all the names once, what 's to say they hadn't done the same long, long, ago...?
To me "blessed is he who comes in the name...." means;

If one comes to me and says; I lied, stole, cheated, all my life, and then one day I just said to myself > NO MORE! And so I stopped.
That is one who comes in there "own" name. or their "own" authority. Nor does it really do anyone else any good.

But if one comes to me and says; I lied, stole, cheated all my life, and then I received the key of David. and I saw how David said; "O' Yah, keep a lying tongue far from me". O' Yah, keep a coveteous heart far from.... etc. and so I asked no longer for "help", but asked to flat out be delivered. and through time, I tell you true, He did this thing for me.

This is one that comes in the "name" or authority of our Father/maker/husband.

The bible speaks of the "key" of David. (rev)
David is the only one I know of that is credited to having a "pure" heart.
David is also the only one I know of that ASKED for a "pure heart".
See... David understood "who" his "maker" was. And that he HAD a "maker". And understood that he was STILL being "made". so he spoke to Yah about the "making" of him. And asked for Him to create in him a "pure heart". and so it was.
"man deviseth his heart, Yah deviseth the steps".

I was one that did all those things all of my life until I believed in Yah to "keep a lying tongue far from me." and so it was. Not that I cannot tell a lie. but I am not inclined to do so like I truly was at one time. In fact, though I was one of the greatest liars I knew, I now am one of the most honest I know... haha. Not > I <, but He who dwells in me. I am still a liar, and will always be. But He in me, is true, and just, to give what so ever I ask and believe he is willing.
And I must admit... it is wonderful to be free from such guilt. I have come to see that all things come by His hand. And nothing escapes it. But that's another post. (smile)

Okay... the "seasons" is a wash... for I have not ever physically kept track of the days each season was in session. that is why I said "approx". after all though... a year is a year... and it does happen pretty regularly each year. So there is still a "pattern" there, but I am unable to be "exact". So... Let us look at nature another way.

The DBR. Truly does happen in nature. A "seed" is dormant/ asleep/ which is as good as being dead. Yahshua does call "sleep" death in the story of Lazarus. This seed cannot "resurrect" until it is "buried". And even then you do not see a result right a way. It takes time. This is not unlike the "word" of Yah. The "word" is the "seed", that is buried in us. But it takes time to "resurrect". That is what the "resurrection" is all about. Yahshua is "The Word". The whole crucifixion and resurrection thing is about "The Word" resurrecting > In Us. <

The Butterfly... this is my personal fav. As a girl I collected caterpillars. They facinated me.
Did you know...
A caterpillar has 12 eyes and 12 sets of legs?
they go to "sleep" (death) "bury" themselves in a cocoon, and almost ALWAYS on the "third" day, they come out a butterfly. Their aprox. life is 4 months. cool... huh?

The Word of "Truth". Lies give birth to lies. But lies will "melt" in the face of truth. Lies are only believed when the truth has not been heard. Often the bible speaks of mountains and hills melting before Yah. It speaks of making the land desolate etc. and sounds really harsh, and unforgiving and mean. (jeremiah) But once one understands what they are symbolic of.
ie; mountains and hills are power and principalities of darkness (lies). the "land" is us. For we are made of the earth. Every mineral in the ground is in us, and vice versa. That is a scientific fact.
It is a fleshly nature to "fool" ourselves. But "Truth" comes along and causes all the lies inside and outside of us to melt and be desolate. What once seemed unmerciful and harsh,(in Jeremiah) becomes beautiful, and truly merciful. And there is a "calmness" or a "peace" that comes with truth, that world in general just cannot understand. I... like you, need no man to tell me what is right and wrong. But a loving council is always welcomed. (smile)

"The physical is important".... Oh yes Bratu, indeed it is.
For it is by the physical, that we are able to understand the spiritual.
I was never one for "TV". So imagine my shock at 24 years old when I saw a program for the first time in my life about the "starving children". This was when I "hung it up". I was so upset. So naive. Had no clue that such horrors existed. I cried, and yelled, and looked up and hollared WHY????? HOW???? How could you!!!! I was so upset.

a few months later I found myself in that class I told you about. First thing shown was Romans 1:19-20; "Because that which may be KNOWN of Yah is manifest in them; For Yah hath shewn it unto them. For the INVISIBLE things of HIM from the creation of the world are CLEARLY seen, being UNDERSTOOD by the things THAT ARE MADE...."

This states that we can "see" something "invisible".. >> Clearly <<... AND "understand" it.
How? by the things that are made.
Then the speaker immediately went to the "starving children". Needless to say my ears perked up big time. He goes to Amos 8:11 "Behold, the days come saith Yah, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of Yah."
See...
We would not "know" what famine was if we did not have it here in the physical. We know from the physical, that it is a horrible thing. That our bellies "puff" up. (not unlike a self righteous person). That our skin breaks out in sores, and there is no joy or rest from it.
And if starved long enough, their bodies will not accept good food, but will vomit it back up.
It must be given to them slowly. Because you speak much truth about "within"... I do not see you as one "starved". So forgive me if i'm feeding you too fast... (smile).
But really.... It was as if a voice spoke inside of my head and said. Remember how you felt about the starving children? How you pitied them, and cried for them... now pity and cry for one that looks ugly, and diseased and starved in the spirit. The one that is hateful, and angry, and selfish, and greedy... feed them. Slowly, and patiently. Needless to say... I draw a lot of selfish people.... (laugh)... But truly I have seen "many" transform over the years. Yah is good.

You know... this famine really did happen. Paul says that within 3 years of his death the wolves will come in and not spare the flock. According to History, The temple was destroyed and the scriptures taken from the people in 70 AD. After that, one could only go to the Catholic Church to "hear" the word... and even then, it was mostly in latin. And to boot... it was not the true word. Not until the 16th. century was the "Word" published to the people. (King James 1611).
And just as a starved child would do... Now when the Catholic people read in the bible;
"call no man father on earth..." and "confess your sins to no man"... They are not able to digest this. They just seem to read right over it. It takes time.

Age of the world? no... age of man. each 1000 years of "man" correspond to the 6 days of creation. after all... there is no trace of man before the ice age. that I know of. you?

By the way... "we" are the "thick darkness" that Yah dwells in. We are the temple.
It is what the "feast of tabernacles" is all about. Him dwelling in us.

You know... everyone has what we call a "gut". It is that still small voice inside of us that Always speaks the truth. How often have we said to ourselves... "I knew it!" I just knew it!

1 Kings 19: 11 And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before Yah. And, behold, Yah passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before Yah; but Yah was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but Yah was not in the earthquake: 12 And after the earthquake a fire; Yah was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

You do not bore me at all Bratu, I find you very interesting. I hope to talk with you more.
May our maker shine on us both. And may we come to be His delight.

From my heart,
D'
"Behold, the kingdom is within you."

[DeAnna]

Shalom Bratu,

I apologise for that huge long post. I type really fast and honestly do not realize it's so long until I see it posted. Then I usually (and did last night) have someone in the household calling me for something, and do not take the time to edit it. In the future I will truly try to do this. (edit it).

Please do not feel that you have to cover every point, or even read it all at once. In fact, you do have to "cover" any point. But as you say... just write what the spirit leads you too. For I am interested reading where you are coming from, not just what you think about where "I" am coming from.

In Truth,
D'

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

I am sorry to hear that you lost your job. Please, do not feel any pressure at all to reply. Maybe you may find a new job through this forum, who knows? Everyone, pass the word, we have a friend in Georgia who is in need of a job.

I want you to know that my Autism Post to EliYah on the Asmorpheus Thread was meant to be an indirect slam against EliYah. I had worked hard for almost two years to make EliYah adjust his policy concerning banning people and deleting posts. EliYah, like all of us, does not take to well to criticism. I have seen a lot of critical posts dispatched to internet heaven by the swift delete finger of EliYah. There have been numerous threads highly critical of his actions one moment, and then, in the blink of an eye, the whole thread takes on a peaceful and supportive character, all through the use of the almighty finger. So, Bratu, I must admit that I kinda used you, my friend, to indirectly get at EliYah. He is the one who is autistic. From my perspective, you are not autistic at all.

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Em Hotep all

First off hi Spying well i got a bit confused as to the point of the autism thing originally but i thought you were refering to me. Either way it made sense in some sort of elaborate connection in my head so no real worries there. No worries about the job i think i have something lined up temporarily, and hopefully i can do what i love and make some money at it. So no worries about me i am in good condition for the time being.

Hi Deanna

Where to begin...That was one huge post. The thing is that if i don't respond to each point then i feel like i am not giving proper address to what you are saying so i try to keep up with everything. Unfortunatly i can't type as fast as i think you can if you are typing that much consistantly.

Thanks for clearing up the evil you were speaking of i understand what you were talking about now.

No worries keep quoting the scripture if you need to, it doesn't really bother me not like it assaults my senses or anything :).

People from the old days do deserve more credit than they are given. Granted they didn't have computers or things like that but, they figured out things we didn't figure out till recently and they didn't have those things. For instance the Ancient Sumerians, and Babylonians knew that Neptune was a planet. Now that isn't so much of a thing except that they also knew that it had a weird orbit and they knew that orbit. This is especially impressive because we didn't even know that until we sent the voyager out there and found that out. So it was this past century that we figured it and they knew it 5,000 years ago. I was pretty impressed. Because of things like this i don't think it is impossible that they understood things like the human body and we all know for the most part that they were willing to open one up and find out.

On the Names issue i agree semantics isn't necessarily all that important. Atleast not considering where they are today. The thing is though that we couldn't understand or pronounce a God's true name anyways. I am pretty much of the feeling that the ancient Persians had which is that a True name holds power because it is a word that is their being. It isn't a representation it is them. But i think that those are long gone now. That and the fact that evidence seen in things like the fact that Japanese doesn't translate exactly into english tells me that ancient languages definetly don't translate completely. And everything isn't right which dilutes things like that.

I quit doing the things i desired to not do by making myself stop doing them. That was my method i have to find that strength within myself. No one has ever been as hard on me in the world as i am on my self. That is my biggest fault as i see it is my sense of demand and expectation i put on myself. I wouldn't be capable of good things if i didn't hold myself to those expectation though so it is one of my better qualities as well. Just one of those things i suppose.

Yes the "DBR" as you put it does happen in nature, as well as many things. It is the basic cycle of life as we would put it. This isn't a new concept by far though the dying reviving Gods and such have been around a really really LONG time. I can think of atleast 5 Gods that die and resurrect all of which were previous to the Christian Jesus. I think this is because that cycle is evident in most things.

As terrible as it is that you were so shocked and startled by the TV and what it had to say. I think that is good because today i think that people are forced to grow up a bit faster than they would like. And i think that TV is a large part of that.
Hopefully you aren't refering to me as being ugly and Diseased in the spirit :).

Ok the age of man that makes more sense but still are you saying that man is only 6 thousand years old? cause i am almost positive that they have found things atleast a bit older than that. More along the lines of 10,000 years of man i think would be a bit closer. Just curious.


Well that should be about everything replied to so let me know what you think.

Bratu

[DeAnna]

Shalom Bratu,

I do hope all is well with you. "Huge post"... I know... Try not to do that to you this time. eek.

Thank you for addressing it all. You are good at that.
"People from the old days".... Yes, the knowledge of the planets is pretty impressive. I too have studied a great deal in theology, Greek, Roman, German, and Egyptian theology. And a bit of Asian.
But as of yet, I've never seen any "written" scriptures that do this "symbolically", nor have I seen in any written scriptures the "prophecies" and fulfillment's (outside of Nostrodamus), nor the "wisdom" that the bible offers. The closest I've come would be Zarathushtra and the vesta:
"right thought, right word, right deed" and all things have a "consequence or a blessing". Which is pretty much common sense though. His writings are quite a bit like the hebrew however.
He speaks about the "7th. day", and the "blessed seed" etc. He too calls the moon (in a round about way "the bride". Anyway... The Hebrew scriptures are among the oldest written and obviously hold a great deal of truth.

Even the "Law of Moses". In the law pork and shellfish are forbidden. Now... in the physical, pork and shellfish are "bacteria eaters". They are designed to be the
"filters" of the world so to speak. The vultures and sows are designed to literally live off dung, and bacteria filled flesh.
The shellfish are the "filters" of the ocean.
And man wonders why our waters are so polluted. (duh)

But the law offers so much more "wisdom" then just the carnal law.
Ex. we are only to eat of beasts that "chew the cud" and are "forked hoof".

Now eating "spiritually" would be eating words (knowledge), written or spoken.
As most know, "to chew the cud" means eat and regurgitate and eat again until all of the impurities are worked out. If we were to "eat" knowledge shared by man, we want to be sure he has "studied" and knows what he is talking about. Not just read something once and dished it out as if it were fact with no pondering or investigation. This would be like eating "swine" or bacteria... for all the impurities or false info has not been purged out.
Yahshua calls the Saducees and Pharisees "swine", because they offered much bacteria or lies in their doctrine. Due to "traditions" of men. Making it "Yahs Law".
The "forked" hoof, is one that not only feeds his flesh but his spirit also. Not only walks in the flesh but after the spirit also. This is how we may know who/what to listen too and what not to.
Actually my family (spiritual) in Missourri (Spyings') showed me that.(smile) For every law there is a "spiritual" or "inner" side to it. I find this "food" wonderfully satisfying. (big smile)

To touch on translations from other languages. I've heard this before. Not sure I buy into that for English though. I say this because it is the most abundant language. Can't imagine a word in existence that is not somehow portrayed in the English language. I would think very few, if any. My thoughts on that. (grin)

"Semantics and names". I agree that the one you worship/follow becomes you. I know Yahshua (which means Yah's salvation) and "Is" Yah's word made flesh. Not just his own flesh given him 2000 years ago, but my flesh. For through Yahshua (which BTW is very different to me, then the christian jesus) Has truly become part part of me. "Indwelling" would be a better way to put it. Paul says "we die daily", I know what he means.

(you)> " I quit doing the things i desired to not do by making myself stop doing them."
So you do not come in the "name" of Set. You come in your own name. But you search for Set. Is that correct?
It must feel good to have such control of yourself. I do not dare say I have it. I have experienced that as soon as I testify to myself having any power to not do that which I would not do, I am sure to find myself doing the very thing I said I did not do. (giggle) did that make sense? I have long since learned to give thanks and praise to Yah for the many things He has brought me out of. Lately, He has been teaching me "balance"... you know... the "yin/yang" thing. I have found truth in the doctrines I have studied. Like the Hindu. I believe in respecting and loving all things. Especially their right to exist. But I do not believe we come back as another creature. I believe if we did, we would have far more understanding of them then we do.

"The DBR"; Is not a new concept. Yes... This is true. It is quite ancient. Vishnu, Ahura, The Egyptian phoenix, for example. All testify to this concept. "The cycle of life" is exactly what it is. It's all about transforming.
I love how Yah has put the planets in a circle, and even moving in a circle. In scripture it talks about the "circle of the earth"... and here man thought it to be flat for so long. The bible also states the "speed of light".
In Num. the 2nd. chapt. It numbers all of the children of Israel. Now the entrance to the tabernacle had to face the "east". The first thing to enter therein was the "light". If you add up the three tribes that "guarded" the east. You will find it is 186,400. Some encyclopedia's say the speed of light is 186,000. But I've seen two that say 186,400.
I'm inclined to go with scripture. (of course; smile)
I realize that there are many old doctrines that offer amazing stuff. But I have found it in scripture also and then some. I think it just "confirms" the truth.
Truly understanding the DBR (cycle of life) Has caused my "low times" (death, and burial) to go much easier for me. For I know that resurrection is just around the corner. And I know that we are "exercised" thereby. And so I try to be grateful for the growth and pray that I make it to the transformation. Did you know that we "grow" while we are asleep? Not when we are awake? Did you know it is common for "small" children to not sleep well, and vice versa for large children? I have read a lot of "baby books" (giggle).

The "TV", Oh YES! You are so right! Talk about the "alpha state". Kids these days can hardly tell the difference between fantasy and reality. And the reality they hope for is often down right scary! I do not like TV. I watch movies though. (chukle). We do not have cable in spite of pleading from the kids. But I do let them get movies. "Mom approved" of course. "G". hahahha
You, "diseased spirit". Oh no Bratu, I would never say such a thing. Please believe me. You seem quite kind. Not hateful or bitter at all. And very patient to boot. Another "fruit" of the spirit.

Okay... "age of man". I do not know of any "man" related things such as writings (hieroglyphics) or man made things that have been dated to be that old. But not sure I would "buy" into it if I were told. See... I'm not sure I believe in "carbon dating" or any of that stuff. I'm not even sure I believe a tyrannosaurs looks like they say it does. Just because they put a bunch of bones together and said; "there". Not sure I believe they put them together correctly. But a lot of that stuff doesn't bother me either way.
I know you believe in the "flood". It certainly is in a lot of doctrines. Zeus for example sent a flood and Poseidon warned his "human love", and her family only was saved. When do you think the flood happened? As far as I know the oldest "carvings" found are dated 3600 BC.

Tell me Bratu, do you have any book(s) you go by? How did you learn about Set? Do you speak any other languages? Have you ever studied Hebrew? Have you ever had any "visions"? Just curious. (smile).

I have had a couple of visions. And I have heard a voice distinctively 4 times.
One vision... I was crying and praying to Yah.
I said: "In your word it says narrow is the way to righteousness and broad the way to destruction. Is the narrow way 613 laws?!?! (I was learning about them and felt quite overwhelmed) I continued to cry and pray, and then I came out and asked; "if it be thy will, please show me exactly What, Is, The Narrow Way. And at that moment I truly saw a big billboard sign. It was huge and white and glowing, and it had big black letters on it, and they were >> H O N E S T Y <<. I stared at it, and tears just flowed. And I knew it was the truth. I thought "of course! It doesn't get any narrower then that." So needless to say, I believe the "narrow way to righteousness" is "Honesty." (smile)

Wonder how long this post is... hmmm... (giggle). Hope to talk to you soon.
Yours Truly,
D'

[DeAnna]

Well, I just got the "I can't help its!"

[Bratu McCaskey]

Em Hotep

Hello i was sick today so all kinds of time to type. Not much to do when you don't feel well.

Umm ok let's start from the top.

Well looks like another huge post. Hehe what would i do with out all of that to respond to. :)

Umm quite a bit of scriptures didn't come into being for along time. Judaism or atleast the Torah is only 3 thousand years old. Most religious texts didn't start really developing till then. The Babylonian's have got some that are very weird and freaky accurate.

Well i like shellfish and bacon bits. Not a big regular pork fan or anything. :) The food thing i follow just isn't much to say about it.

Well the language thing consider the Inuit have like 15 words for ice. They all mean different things to them but they all translate to ice for us. Names don't translate either. Look at Peking versus Bejing. It is phonetics when it comes to that stuff. So there are lots of things that don't translate. There is even some german things that don't translate. You don't have to go very far.

"So you do not come in the name of Set" that is an interesting thing. Here is why. By coming for myself and standing for myself and pursuing discipline through myself i further what he wants for me. So in making myself stop without help i have done what he desires. I need His strength sometimes but I talk to Him alot mostly. Sometimes just to hear what He has to say. But i speak for Him as best i can as His is diluted to the nth degree now adays. His true self grows more distant to the average everyday. Well i have control on alot of myself but i am a fire i can only point myself in the right direction most of the time. I see balance as a very very important thing essential. I see that as the essential working to the universe the one versus the other. Light and Dark. The Hindu philosophy is interesting but much of it is far to pacifistic for my taste. I believe in reincarnation however i think people are people so no coming back as animals, well no more than we already are animals. I guess no coming back as a different type of animal.

The Earth being round. Again not a new or Copernicus philosophy, Greek Philosopher's figured that for centuries. Many believed the world round.

I was a small child so i know exactly what you mean about not sleeping well. I had x-rays for the first 5 years of my life because of weird bone growth.

Well there are cave carvings and such which are much older than just 5 thousand years. The Mammoth was pretty old. How do you believe in the speed of light and it being a scientific concept and not Carbon dating. Seems like it is one scientific concept with another. They put the Tyrannasaurs together like that based on modern reptiles and the similarities in the human bone structure. I have seen the most intact T-Rex in the world it is only missing like 3 bones and it looks pretty correct to me.

Another flood wad babylon. Utnapishtam was the only one who survived. Enlil was enraged.

As far as books i go by. I have read a Plethora of Egyptian works and such. So more of a compilation but not any specific book like a Bible. I have known of Set since i was a child, never were sure how. :) just one of those things. I know alot of things we are not sure how i know. But i had read of the common misconception of Set and Satan being the same and for some reason i knew that wasn't true. So i started having dreams of Set and decided to have alook. The rest is history to this point. Don't speak any other languages not fluently anyway. And never studied hebrew.

I have had visions of sorts her and there. And many times i find answers and words in my mouth that aren't my own but i suppose everyone says that.

So there is that

Bratu

[DeAnna]

Shalom Bratu,

Sorry it took so long! My PC was down for a few days. Kept overheating. Have box fan on it now. (laugh) Hope your still around. Really sorry.
Hope your doing well, feeling better.
Okay...

(Scriptures)

>> "The Babylonian's have got some that are very weird and freaky accurate." <<

According to scripture, the Babylonians and the Egyptians had quite a bit of dealings with the Hebrews. Who is to say, who got what from who. But you must admit. It is the Hebrew scriptures and only the Hebrew scriptures that have been translated in almost every language, and spread to the four corners of the world. Just like they say they will. Even three thousand years ago.
In scripture Yah says that He shall pour out His spirit on all man. "They shall all know me, from the least to the greatest."
Written approx. 2800 years ago. And I do believe what is manifested in the physical shows forth the Creator Himself. Therefore... what has manifested "since" then, is this bible, though many have tried to destroy it, is about the only thing that has survived the test of time. And has been "sent" out to all nations, and peoples.

The Physical "sun" rises in the east and sets in the west. I believe the "Son" to be the Word of our creator. This physical 'word', (the bible) rose from the 'east', and yet it was the "west", that has "spread" it abroad. It is the "west", that has caused it to become known. Now... granted... there is an "antichrist" that is also in the working. Going "parellell", so to speak. Thus "deviding" the word, or separating the physical from the spirit, becomes the "inner" understanding, where the kingdom is to be found.

The New Testiment, written 2000 years ago. Says this gospel shall be preached to the four corners of the earth. Indeed it was. But on a "physical" sense. Yahshua also says to Peter; "Satan desires to sift you as wheat". Indeed this has happened.
For the Catholic Religion says that Peter was the first Pope. And that all other popes proceeded from him. (Peter). But this is a lie. For Peter at no time took on any role such as the "Pope" takes on. Peter at no time claimed to have the power to absolve sins, nor did he ever encourage any man to confess their sins unto him. Or call him "father", or kiss his hand... etc.

A study of Rev. 17, describes the Catholic church to a tee! In the physical she is called "the mother church". But in the bible she is the "whore".
And it is true that the catholic church, in order to "gain" the people, took on all of the pagan celebrations, and changed the connotation of them. Example "Easter" was originally a celebration of the fertility goddess "Ishtar". This is why we have "bunnies" laying "eggs". Same with x-mas.

In Daniel, it says that the beast will change "dates, days, and holy days".
Indeed, 1000 years later.. the Catholic church did just that. Made the "sabbath" (7th. day) Sunday. which is truly the "first day". (look at your calander) This is just one of many. We may find that other religions have done similar.. but... "world wide"???

If you study the 10 plagues of egypt. and put them on a "metephorical" sense. You will see that we all go through this in our walk/search. There is a "pattern" to everything. And this is what I look for. The pattern.

Translations; >> "Well the language thing consider the Inuit have like 15 words for ice. They all mean different things to them but they all translate to ice for us. " <<

Man may have taken the easy route and translated all of these for "ice". But is there no english words to describe the "15" different meanings to them? and if not... then how do we know that Ice has 15 different meanings? see what i mean?
Like if one "ice" means "cold", one means "solid"... do we not have these words?

In Hebrew one word can mean "food/meat/substance/bread" one word has many different meanings. They all translate "meat and bread", but that is not to say that we do not have the other definitions in our language.

"Names don't translate either". This is true. We are not to translate a "proper name".
"america" is "america" in all languages. This is why I prefer the names Yahshua and Yah(v/weh). As you may have noticed, I just say "Yah".
However... often "names" have "meanings". And I think the "meanings" are very important. Ex. "Yah shua", means "Yahs salvation". For 'shua", in hebrew means salvation. "Messiah", that we call "christ" (greek). Means "annointed". "Annointed" means "quickening" or "spirit filled".

> " I have seen the most intact T-Rex in the world it is only missing like 3 bones and it looks pretty correct to me." <

But how would you know?

Speed of light is something that still exists. There is a difference. (smile)

> "So i started having dreams of Set and decided to have alook. " <

Where did you look? The books you mentioned?

You should study Hebrew if you ever get inclined. I never understood what they meant by "it's a living language", until I started studying it. It really is! It like takes on a life of its own. it's pretty wild. You can translate it so many ways! and yet... it still says the same thing on the "big picture". pretty wild.

> " I have had visions of sorts here and there." <

care to share any? Please email me if you prefer. Would love to hear them. If you are willing.

>" And many times i find answers and words in my mouth that aren't my own but i suppose everyone says that. " <

Yes... this has happened to me as well. Often I didn't know a thing, until it just popped out! and I think, wow! that is good! Thank you Yah! (smile)

Take care friend,
D'

Ps. did i do better? not AS long? (smile)

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hello all

I am just posting so you know why my response is delayed. I am still battling a raging fever and all other sorts of good stuff. I went to the doctor today and he said i should start feeling better sometime next week. So i am not ignoring you i just can't think straight which is a requirement. Thanks for the patience i will be back as soon as i can

bratu

[Spying]

Hi Bratu,

I just had the thought of maybe giving you a little to chew on while you are recuperating. Do you remember on the EliYah Forum when you wrote that you liked me? You were not threatened at all by my presence, were you? For some reason you felt excited, didn't you? Maybe, we should call it anticipation or expectation rather than excitement. I had many of the same feelings. I knew as well as you that we were going to be severely challenged in establishing a conversation on the EliYah Forum. The point is: I wanted to talk to you, and you desired to talk with me. Why did we have that desire when in actuality we have so very little in common to talk about?

You know what? When YAH emptied HIMSELF into mankind, He emptied the core portion of HIMSELF into the person know as Messiah YAHUSHUA. However, amongst mankind there exist others who are chosen in Messiah YAHUSHUA. These individuals were chosen before the foundation of the world to be part of a reborn YAH through the work of Messiah YAHUSHUA. This choosing is not based upon what a person is, or what a person does, or what a person believes, it is strictly based upon the choosing of YAH. This is not something of which I have always been aware, but I am aware of it now. So, whenever I meet someone, it is with excitement. I am meeting YAH. I am meeting a spirit that has been around forever, and I am part of that spirit, and that spirit will always be part of me through the work of Messiah YAHUSHUA. In other words, Bratu, in having the privilege of getting to know you, I am getting to know YAH.

So, you have been around for a long time as spirit, but this is your first go around with life. This is your first opportunity to be an individual. If you are truly chosen, it won't be your last. Thank you, YAH!

Be well, Bratu.

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hails to everyone

Alright my post has been long enough delayed. I am still not well and far from it but no matter i am plenty strong enough to survive.

So i will answer to the posts in order as they came:

To your first point i would disagree. It is not only the hebrew scriptures that have been translated into almost every language. Egyptian is also very wide spread, however Babylonian is almost not translated into English. They have been spread to the four corners of the world. This i say is a self fulfilling prophesy. No other religion preached that prophesy of being spread throughout the world. This is significant because followers of your religion long ago read this and felt it was their duty to take it to those corners. That is completely understandable but it doesn't take divinity to make such a prophesy. Monotheism isn't even the most widely practiced religion in the world. Granted numbers aren't everything. People needed something. This was something they could relate to because it was basic decency, the golden rule holds special place to the weak. They didn't want to get stolen from so of coarse it makes sense to worship a God that discourages stealing.
The bible is one of many things that has survived the test of time. Being old doesn't make it right. Hinduism is by far and away older. Buddism is close to the same age and its followers are more prevelent than God's. The Aboriginie (pardon my spelling) religion is the oldest in the world. It is nearly unchanged for over 5 thousand years. No other religion can say that. The bible has been sent out because people feel it is their mission to send it out. The difference in your beliefs and mine is that in mine people have to find thier own. Faith can't be brought to someone they have to bring themselves to it. In handing out my Literature on a street corner to save people, i have not brought any faith or any loyal follower all i have done is hearded cattle. Blood is the way that God was spread to those four corners. This practice although doesn't involve burning people can be nearly as hard to live with and just as harsh now adays.
Yes it was born in the middle east. But now i think we are getting into relativity. The middle east was named so by Europeans. In all reality Europe is part of the east, being the eastern hemisphere if i am not mistaken which i could be geography was a long time ago. The point is that i think this can be attributed to the fact that our style of civilization started in the east. And we killed the opposing sorts of civilization in the west. But the west being the US became the most powerful nation in the world. The west is the greatest distributor because we have more liberties and freedoms than others we also like to try to impose our life styles on others as well.

My knowledge and respect for the catholic church is limited so i will definetly take your word for that. But it makes sense because that would give the catholic church validity so of coarse that is what they would say. The catholic church and pardon me for sounding like a conspirasy theorist has one of the largest libraries in the world. Alot of which is information and things of that nature which were confiscated as being heretical documents. For this reason i have little to no respect for the catholic church. What is in there should be open for anyone. But i am just a conspiracy theorist.

Hehe didn't realize that Easter was Ishtar...but never put 2 and 2 together i guess. Makes sense. I knew that pretty much every holiday on the Christian calendar has been confiscated from the pagans in one way or another.
The calendar thing is another thing which is sketchy. We adopted the names of our days from the Vikings (pagans). The calendar itself is Roman originally (pagan). Calendars are just our way of keeping up with things. The first day the last day, shouldn't really matter as long as the purpose is what is kept.

The 10 plagues of Egypt. Why doesn't this follow your 4s 3s or 7s? It was part the Egyptian religion to the best of my knowledge.

We know there are different meanings because of Inuit that learned english, but there is no translation. We don't necessarily take the easy as much as it is perception. What i consider fear or what i consider hate is not necessarily what you consider fear or hate. We have a common word but they don't necessarily mean the same thing. Somethings can't translate because they lose their purpose and thier meaning. Things like Amen, it translates but it doesn't really. Sure it is capitalized and it is the only word including the name of God that wasn't translated. But for what ever reason it wasn't translated. I think this is because it doesn't really translate. We make words fit what we want them to fit, despite that they may not. But even proper names are attempted to be translated Los Estados Unidos: United States. Proper noun but they translated it anyway. We make things fit.

Because if you have ever put together a skeleton of anything there is only one real way it goes. Put together a human skeleton sometime and try to put it together wrong but still obey our laws of the physicality. Does't work real well.

Carbon dating also exists and its principle is just as applicable and realistic as the speed of light. We can observe how carbon dating works we can't observe the speed of light truely because we can't achieve through our own productions. All carbon dating does is figure out how much carbon is left in something. Over time it deteriorates, but it deteriorates and a given pace. Like light speed we figured a number and that number will let us figure how old something is.

I have read most any book of Egyptian mythos i can get my hands on. As well as other religions like Sumerian and Norse.

Perhaps i will share but in good time .

I do the same thing except i thank Set .

Not as long but i think mine is . I am sorry if i sound a bit testy or hostile i am still pretty cranky because i really really feel bad. But there is only so long laying in a bed can satisfy an Aries. So my apologies if anything offends.

Bratu

__________________
For it is He before Whom the Sky Shakes- Set

Marspital





Alright now to reply to you Spying before i go get more sleep

I was excited to see another person there whose first instinct wasn't to warn everyone else of me. But i take fear as a great compliment, because if what i said didn't have some validity then there would be no reason to fear me. But that is ok because you are more sound in your beliefs and not merely being herded along like a sheep to a fate you know nothing about. I was excited to hear someone with an open mind. It is hard enough to stand by what you think today when there are many who would love to tell you that you are wrong. I don't get excited to know people or anything like that as you have said that you do i am more looking and hoping that someone will understand. As of yet i am still searching. It is one thing for a God to understand you and it is another for a man to understand you or a woman for that matter. To be able to stare at that person and talk to them in front of your face. That is what i am after someone to understand. Maybe one day. Your metaphor or connection is very close to what i think. I am made of the same thing that the universe is made of and it flows through my veins. You call it Yah i call it Fire. That fire coarses through and i know it exists if it didn't i wouldn't. However, it is no God or anything like that is just what i am made of. Not all people are made of this so to speak they are made of different things. Air, Water, Earth and so forth. I have head ache so i am stopping but more on that later.

Bratu

[Ishshah Yir'iyayh]

Hotepu Bratu,

I am sorry to hear you have that darn flu bug. Take some Golden seal and ask Yah to come against that dis-ease.

ellussa ella yasammeruka

I feel so much love in this thread amongst people who do not think alike. There has been so much respect, I just wanted to thank you all.

My response to this thread is that it is an arguement of the left hand path verses the right hand path and Ishshah travels in the center. Maybe I can be a bridge for you builders and sewing people. Maybe we can knit together a mesh that will keep us all warm.

Firstly, Satan can create offspring:

Isaiah 14:29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit
shall be a fiery flying serpent.

The Fiery Flying Serpent is a Seraphim:

8314 saraph {saw-rawf'} • AV - fiery serpent 3, fiery 2, seraphim 2; 7 • 1) serpent, fiery serpent 1a) poisonous serpent (fiery from burning effect of poison) 2) seraph, seraphim 2a) majestic beings with 6 wings, human hands or voices in attendance upon God

Set, the everlasting snake will drive his flames against them , and the Lady of furnaces, the lady of the fiery pits, will drive against them the fiery flames which come forth from their mouth.

It appears that the serpent is Set and that he can have children called Fiery Flying Serpents, who poison.

SET is said to be a child of SEB and NUT. There five children were, in order: Osiris, Horus, Set, Isis and Nephthys. He is said to be the husband of Nephthys and father of Anubis. So he is a child of the gods and a father of Anubis according to the Heliopolitan system of mythology.

In ancient times, the left and the right used to work together to deal with the dead. After Set killed Osiris, Set's credibility became that of an enemy. Even serpents used to be worshipped, but now they are not.

In the company of the gods, the bones are said to be the goddesses and gods of the heavens. The left side belongs to Set and the Right side to Horus. This would be the left and right hand paths, whereas it is the heart and pineal center that is the Divine esoteric inner marriage.

One writing says that it is possible that Set beings may have been of like nature to the god Set, who was the brother and associate of Horus in the earliest times, who later lost his position as a god.

However, in the next post, Yah willing, I shall talk about the Ladder of Set and the Lord of the Sabbath and the Queen of heaven. It looks like it is a serpent, hegoat revelation week for Ishshah Yir'iyayh.

Hotepu Bratu
Shalom Spying
May you both be blessed.
Ishshah Yir'iyayh
Woman who fears Yah
Seeker of Truth
Sends you Love and Prayers

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hotep

I am sorry to see that Deanne hasn't responded yet but no matter i will get there. And i am also sorry to see that spying hasn't responded yet. Well now to respond to the one who did respond.

Set, the everlasting snake?... I am going to have to disagree. Set isn't the serpent nor is the serpent his. Apopsis or Apep is the only serpent i know of and that is the serpent Set slays daily in the defense of Ra. The association with Set came in the new kingdom and from Greco-Roman influence. This is because He was considered the God of all things foreign to Egypt. And when you country is conquered by foreigners and they identify with that God it doesn't bode well. So i would venture to say that Set isn't the serpent.

Ok next, Set was the child of Geb and Nut who weren't really Gods they are the earth and sky. Osiris, Isis, Nepthys, and Set were all born of that combination. However the Elder Horus or Heru was also born in there somewhere but if you speak of the double crowned Horus then He was the child of Isis and Osiris. In ancient Egypt all were born in pairs so according to what you said there is someone missing. Set was born with Nepthys or rather before Nepthys. He burst from His mother's side creating chaos. He is a God Himself as well as the Child of a God. Born unto nothing instead of Woman.
When Set killed Osiris it was this: Set was the red land and the winter, Osiris was the fertile land and the spring and inundation. Set kills Osiris yearly when the fall comes.
Never did Set loose his position as a God. He was held as a guilty party for things that weren't necessarily His doing. He was demonized and for that the saddness is great. The serpent perhaps like Set is misunderstood.

Bratu

[Ishshah Yir'iyayh]

This is from a brother I deeply respect. It agrees with what you are saying. The effort of my post is to unite the two thoughts and schools, so there can be balance. I mentioned the Sabbath because Satan / Saturn governs the Sabbath. Yah once revealed to me that the reason children of Yah don't do anything on Sabbath is because Satan rules on the day, while Yah is resting. In so above, so below terms, this would also be a macrocosmic 1,000 year reign. But I am still working on these understandings.

Here is Hemaat's post.

On another thread some discussions occurred on the nature of the Netcher, Set. Many see this Neter as the embodiment of all the things we try to rid ourselves of. Some even see Set as the embodiment of evil whose name has been corrupted into Satan. Still again, many see Set merely as the embodiment of the physical self.

My own ideas about Set began to change after I began studying the metaphorical story of The Contentions of Heru and Set. I was struck by a few things. Firstly, Ra
initially preferred to give rulership to Set instead of Heru and had to be convinced by other Neteru to give rulership to Heru. Secondly, even after rulership was given
to Heru, Ra placed Set in a position of honor at the head of his solar bark to lead the daily battle against Apep. Thirdly, the recurring argument of the Peschet (i.e.,
the Ennead) against Set was that "Right rules Might." It is easily argued that if Set had been given rulership then the opposite would occur,i.e., Might would rule Right. (In this case, Heru, i.e., Hera-Sa not Heru-Wr, is an aspect of Maat
embodying the pursuit of justice.)

After more study I learned that Apep actually embodies evil in Kemetic spirituality, so Set cannot embody evil. I also now believe that Set embodies the brute force and physical power aspect of God, i.e., Might. This, I believe, is why Set constantly tried to get Heru to participate in tests of power (which Heru would have loss if Auset had not intervened). It is also why Ra considered Set indispensable as a first line of defense against Apep.

I think it is important to note that Old Kingdom and some Middle Kingdom texts hold Heru and Set in equal regard. Peace was achieved when these two were united and in harmony.

Consequently, I now see Set as that aspect of God which is brute force and physical power. However this force must yield to those who pursue justice. The pursuit of power cannot overshadow the pursuit of justice, or any other aspect of Maat for that matter.

(Thoughts on the relationship of Set and Ausar, and why it led to Ausar's murder by Set will follow in the next post.)

Hope to get some feedback and critiques from fellow scribes. (As a servant of Maat, I might be a bit biased.)

God's peace,
HemMaat

[Ishshah Yir'iyayh]

oops...double post

[Ishshah Yir'iyayh]

Shalom Bratu,

Again my purpose is to reveal the Truth about the correlations. The later Greek writers have their own discernation (excuse the colloquialism) about the ancient egyptian pantheon. Out of all the posts I read in this thread, I don't see where they actually share what Set is. If he is not a correlation to Satan, then we must discuss who and what Set is (ie. god, devil, angel, friend or foe). It doesn't appear that the thread can prosper without this knowledge.

Another fellow scribe writes in response to Hemaat:
Here is Neter Aa Meri's response:

The viewpoint of Heru, Set, and Apep, from an Ausar (Osiris) Auset (Isis) perspective, is that Heru symbolizes the Will and Set symbolizes those that have mastered Spheres 7-10 and has some mastery over the Will (Sph 6) but uses his/her Will only to gratify his/her lower self.

Apep is the serpent which in the Garden of Eden led to the disobedience of God. SUS goes further by saying the Set physically corresponds to the mammilian brain (limbic cap) humans have, which if left unchecked leaves us only wanting to gratify our animal (read sensuous) instincts. As for Apep, it physically corresponds to the reptilian brain (cerebral cortex) which is the source of any emotional
reactions and violence we may exhibit, so it is truly evil.

Our constant struggle, is to still all emotions and keep the heart stable to live Truth. The heart referred to is the Will and only through mastery of the breath and meditation can we defeat Set and Apep.

Hetepu,
Neter Aa Meri

In this treatise, the scribe correlates Apep with the Serpent in the Garden. We can also see a correlation with the need to have a clean heart and keep it stable with Truth, seated upon it. The pursuit for inner cleansing seems to be a part of these scribes beliefs. This would correlate with the cause of Y'shua. My question in biblical terms is that inner cleansing by ritual is not the same as grace and transformation given, and supernatural transfiguration. When we apply the will to purifacation, where does one draw the line. The will in the New testament is requested to submit to Yah's Will. Does self will have the ability to see clearly? No. That is why people call on Yah, or any god. They want assistence and/or power. Everyone is looking for help in discernment and knowledge. This humble attitude is the fruit of a true saint. Excelling beyond delusion and confusion is the goal, no matter what the religion. This is what the true seekers have in common. Power seekers, oppressors, by the use of the forces, are mere magicians and truely have no power. Omnipresence exudes and breaths life upon all. It is not partial. It is upon and within all flesh and is merely awaiting the recognition of the seeker of Truth. Merely the forgetting and remembering. The view of seperatism and choosing gods is invocation and craft. The entire world submits to Set, the god of nation building, storms, chaos. Yet the seeker of Truth finds Omnipotence and peace. So what is the difference and similarities here?

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

[Bratu McCaskey]

Hello all

Still no reply from Deanne or Spying....

Umm yes the post pretty much does agree with me but i do see where were trying to converge the two schools of thought. Set was the only one strong enough for the boat of a million years and Heru was crowned king. Heru-Ur or the elder Heru the brother of Set the one who was held on equal grounds stood for basically the same thing the only difference being that he was order or law and Set was chaos. Chaos doesn't make a good king but Order does, however both are necessary. The chaos i think is most signified by Set's control of the Storms. Other than that not much i can say your friend is wise and sounds pretty close on the money to me. I have a few other thoughts and theories i have been kicking around for quite some time now but nothing worth sharing yet. So until later or i can solidify something more in my head

Bratu