The Eye of the Storm Part II [Archive] - LO-AMMI DISCUSSION FORUMS

DeAnna

02-06-2001, 02:18 PM

Shalom Everyone,

Dear Bratu, please forgive the time lapse. I had dear sisters and a brother come to see me from canada. Truly, they were "Yah sent". My time had to be devoted to my guests. They left just Sunday. Im sure you understand. :)

I do hope you are well today.

I am not aware of the Egyptian "Scriptures" being translated or spread to the 4 corners. As far as "self fulfilling prophecy" goes. The fact is, thousands of years later the Holy Bible is world wide. And it is not only due to the "inquisition", that was only a "part" of the world. The mercinaries and missionaries, were not oppressive in any way. And though chrisitanity has spread their "interpertation" of these scriptures, which I believe to be in error... The fact is ... it is the Holy Bible that is available to anyone in the world. The only book I know of that is even free in many places such as hotels or hospitals. And is in almost every home wether or not they read it.
As stated earlier, the "interpertation" of these scriptures has been in error, but none the less, the "scriptures" themselves have been made available like no other. I believe this has something to do with the statement "When the fullness of the gentiles is come..."

For it was the "Gentiles" that did the leg work of spreading it, not the jews. It speaks of after the fullness of the gentiles, then Israel will return.
We now have "messanic" synogogues going up left and right, and this has been never before in history. But notice "Jews" as a general rule are not receiving the "Jesus" of the world, but > "Yahshua" of the Scriptures. And there is a difference. This, man could not have planned.

But again... these are just "physical" manifestations of much deeper understandings. The name "Israel" means; "Yah prevails". All who believe that Yah shall prevail over all things, including themselves... are indeed "Israel". The gentiles are those that either do not beieve in Yah at all, or believe Yah exists, but the outcome is up to them. There is much to be said on the "meaning" of names, rather then the "translation" of a name.

>>"The golden rule holds special place to the weak" <<

My, my, we really were not feeling well, were we. (smile).
But just in case you truly believe this... by the golden rule, I assume you mean "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you".
Do you really believe this holds special place to "weak" people? I have "moved" all of my life. Never went to a school for a full year until my senior year. Went to 3 and 4 schools per year often. Have met and spent the night with, and had much dealing with all kinds of people, and their parents. It has been my experience, (and I have had more then most) that when it comes to people... the "weakest" people, are quite selfish. They are the ones who complain and whine the most.

The golden rule is "for" them, as it is "for" anyone with any depth. The old saying "what goes around comes around", I found to be quite true. Even for those who do not believe in the bible. Though the bible basically teaches this very thing. It has also been my experience, that every time I have judged someone and held somewhat of a "grudge"... years later I have found myself walking in their shoes. Needless to say, forgiveness toward them came easy after that. (big smile)
Yahshua (Yahs salvation) says he does not judge by the flesh. I understand this now. For though my "flesh" may look like it is in error... during the times I am walking in shoes that I didn't think I would... from the outside it can look bad... but what took place on the inside was forgiveness and understanding toward another. And afterward, when it's all said and done, I am cleansed of that grudge that I held for years. The bible says "All things work togeather for the good to those that love Him". This .. only through "life", I have found to be true.

Just to set the record straight... what you call "my religion" is in error. Christianity is not my religion. I do not believe in religion. I believe in a relationship (active) with our maker. And I agree with you that one cannot bring faith to another. But one can "influence" another away from doing a bad thing for them or toward another, if one cares enough to take the time.
If I have a freind that is really angry with another... I can "feed" that anger by agreeing with them and saying yeah, yeah, yeah!! Or... I can say... "well... we have all made mistakes, and this person that is being so ugly to you is not a "happy" or "Peaceful" person. For if they had the spirit of peace, they would not be so ugly to you... They probably do not have the goodness in their life that we do etc..... What ever is appropriate.. but you get the picture. For I have found anger hurts the angry far more then the one they are angry at.

The Catholic Church: I hope to write a post to you on this. It would make this one far too long. (smile). But we are in agreement. I too am a "conspiracy theorist". And not only with the Catholic Church!

The 10 Plagues of Egypt: This will be my next post.
as far as the 3,4, 7s go... these are "part" of the pattern. Not the whole pattern. As is the DBR ... but it all ties in...
are we being facetious? (smile)

I will accept your answers on the rest of your post. But a word on carbon dating... from what I have seen... many "disagree" on the age of something. I have read many different theories of the age of the world to the age of a document. It's always ; "some say", or "most agree"... etc.

Translations; okay. (grin)

I have found that all things are symbolic. in all religions. In my study of Egyptian, German, Greek and Roman Mythology, even Eastern (Scriptures) all is symbolic, and we physical people take what is spiritual or symbolic and make it carnal, or physical.

Example; Sets birth. Sky and earth getting togeather and birthing set (chaos) does little for me, or anyone and their understanding of "the big picture" so to speak. What does it mean to them (me)?

I have found truth in all religions. or "myths". some truth, not all.

Symbolically, it does more for me and my understanding. I have learned through the bible to look at all things this way.

"Sky" : or > "spirit" gets together with "earth" or > "us". And gives birth to our maker in us. Which at first is truly chaos, for the physical is at emnity with the spirit. What our flesh desires, and what our wisdom (heart/mind) knows to be good or true, often collide. Thus the war/clamour/chaos begins. But when one follows the spirit. "Order" comes about. When one follows the flesh, chaos. selfishness, complaining, and unhappiness, or restlessness.

I have found it to be advantageous to lean toward the spirit, and not to the flesh. I have found peace in this. Weather the peace be in darkness (hidden) or in light (open) ... peace/ Shalom.. is where I am pleased to dwell. Yah showed me this. For "Yarushalom" means:
city of peace. I for one am pleased to dwell in Yarushalom. (smile)

Hope to talk with you soon.

DeAnna

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of Yah".

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

02-06-2001, 11:37 PM

Shalom Bratu,

I posted this yesterday, but I quess the threads don't go to page five. Again my purpose is to reveal the Truth about the correlations. The later Greek writers have their own discernation (excuse the colloquialism) about the ancient egyptian pantheon. Out of all the posts read in this thread, I don't see where they actually share what Set is.
Did you read this post? I can't find it. Anyway, If he is not a correlation to Satan, then we must discuss who and what Set is (ie. god, devil, angel, friend or foe). Thanks for the boat imput.

Another fellow scribe writes in response to Hemaat:

Here is Neter Aa Meri's response:

The viewpoint of Heru, Set, and Apep, from an Ausar (Osiris) Auset (Isis)perspective, is that Heru symbolizes the Will and Set symbolizes those that have mastered Spheres 7-10 and has some mastery over the Will (Sph 6) but uses his/her Will only to gratify his/her lower self.

Apep is the serpent which in the Garden of Eden led to the disobedience of God. SUS goes further by saying the Set physically corresponds to the mammilian brain (limbic cap) humans have, which if left unchecked leaves us only wanting to gratify our animal (read sensuous) instincts. As for Apep, it physically corresponds to the reptilian brain (cerebral cortex) which is the source of any emotional
reactions and violence we may exhibit, so it is truly evil.

Our constant struggle, is to still all emotions and keep the heart stable to live Truth. The heart referred to is the Will and only through mastery of the breath and meditation can we defeat Set and Apep.

Hetepu,
Neter Aa Meri

In this treatise, the scribe correlates Apep with the Serpent in the Garden.We can also see a correlation with the need to have a clean heart and keep it stable with Truth, seated upon it. The pursuit for inner cleansing seems to be a part of these scribes beliefs. This would correlate with the cause of Y'shua. My question in biblical terms is that
inner cleansing by ritual is not the same as grace and
transformation given, and supernatural transfiguration. When we apply the will to purifacation, where does one draw the line. The will in the New testament is requested to submit to Yah's Will. Does self will have the ability to see clearly? No. That is why people call on Yah, or any god. They want assistence and/or power. Everyone is looking
for help in discernment and knowledge. This humble attitude is the fruit of a true saint. Excelling beyond delusion and confusion is the goal, no matter what the religion. This is what the true seekers have in common. Power seekers, oppressors, by the use of the forces, are mere magicians and truely have no power. Omnipresence exudes and breaths life upon all. It is not partial. It is upon and within all
flesh and is merely awaiting the recognition of the seeker of Truth. Merely the forgetting and remembering. The view of seperatism and choosing gods is invocation and craft. The entire world submits to Set, the god of nation building, storms, chaos. Yet the seeker of Truth finds Omnipotence and peace. So what is the difference and similarities here?

Hotep
Ishshah Yir'iyayh

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

02-06-2001, 11:52 PM

DeAnna,

What a wise sister, you are.

I enjoyed your post. I would like to add one little tidbit in my effort to take seperatism away and bring unity from the Ancients of Days. At one point Y'rusalem was actually HeruSalem. This Heru is who will overcome Chaos and bring peace in the ancient Egyptian pantheon. I find the similarities very interesting as they reveal themselves.
It is actually Osiris who would correlate to Y'shua. I wonder if the next coming of Y'shua, actually correlates to Heru. Many people are afraid of doing this because of the hype on new agism, but in actuality, the devil is a seperatist. Yah is a gatherer. I am a conspiracy theorist also. In regards to Herusalem. I will see if I can find the linquistic study that will morph the great City of Peace all the way back to Canaan and the Tribe of Judah and their neighbors, Egypt.

Many blessings
Ishshah Yir'iyayh
A woman who fears Yah

Spying

02-08-2001, 06:51 AM

Hi Bratu,

Just a few thoughts this morning. It is another good day. Make some sunshine!

I have been listening to all of the discussion concerning who controls this and who controls that. These are the things that YAH seems to me to be in control of: Faith, Hope, and Love. Actually, these three things are the stuff of what YAH is made of. Love is the fulfillment of the Law. Law is whatever YAH determines is necessary for the perpetuation of Faith and Hope. So, Faith and Hope must submit to the Law. Whenever you find all three working together, you have, and I don't understand why, an orderly and united universe. You can make a mistake, but you have mercy. You have forgiveness. You have freedom and peace. You have the ability to reproduce. Without the three working together, there is no ability to reproduce or perpetuate oneself. There is nothing but war and chaos: Disorder.

You have said that Set has nothing against the Law that you know of. How does Set feel about Faith and Hope? What is your thinking about faith and hope, Bratu? Here is how I define Faith:
Heb 11:1
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (KJV)Sincerely, Spying

Bratu McCaskey

02-09-2001, 12:05 PM

Hails

Ok well i will mention first that i am really frustrated because i posted yesterday and either it was deleted or the system farted and it was lost. So i didn't copy it like i should have and i completely can't remember what i wrote. Truthfully i don't really want to re-write the whole thing. So if it was deleted which i wouldn't see why then let me know. Other than that i will reply to Spying and Ishasha tomorrow.

bratu

Sandy

02-09-2001, 02:04 PM

Ishshah Yir'iyayh wrote:
At one point Y'rusalem was actually HeruSalem. This Heru is who will overcome Chaos and bring peace in the ancient Egyptian pantheon.
Yebuc (Jebus), the aboriginal name of Jerusalem (Genesis 10:16 Joshua 18:28 1 Chronicles 11:4, 5 ).
Yebucy (Jebusites), inhabitants of Jebus; descendants of Cannan.
Hierosoluma or Hierousalem Greek for Yerushalaim (Jerusalem).

Sandy

02-09-2001, 04:22 PM

Mesopotamia (Greek name for Sumer, the Akkadians, etc.).

States = Nomes in Egyptian. White for upper Egypt, red for lower Egypt.

Sumer's myriad successors: Akkadians, Babylonians, Assyrians, etc.

Horus:
hawk-god = sacred falcon,
son of Isis and Osiris.
Isis is identified with Sirius and daughter of "sun-god ra".
Osiris is identified with Orion (constellation).

Horus = Heru = ancient sun god
Heru means "face"
Horus of the horizon = face of the horizon

Name "Khufu" is phonetically similar to the ancient Egyptian word for the great pyramid "Khuti", meaning "glorius light" or "horizon of heaven".

"L" and "R" interchangeable in Egyptian, hence "Heru" becomes "Helu". Put a Greek ending on "Helu" and you get "Helios" = Greek sun god.

Heliopolise = city of the sun, the "city of the face" of the sun.

Cairo, orginally named El Kahira from the Arabic El Kahir meaning "Mars".

Egyptian for "divine being" or "god" was NTR, which meant "one who watches". That is exactly the meaning of the name "Shumer", which is the Old Testament Hebrew name for "Sumer", the land of the one who watches.

Neb, Egyptian for "lord", which is also found in the name Nebuchadnezzer, etc.

Neb Heru = lord of the sun.

Greek word "hero" comes from "heru".

Mary, a word hidden in the word "pyramid".

Have any of you ever followed the information concerning the "face on mars"?

DeAnna

02-09-2001, 06:57 PM

Shalom Ishshah Yir'iyayh,

And welcome. (smile)

Please forgive me for taking so long to respond to you. I have been studying the 10 plagues, and other things. I will share as soon as I have "confirmation", if you know what I mean.
It has been a long time since I studied Egyptian mythology. So my recolcections are rusty.
I don't have much time, so this will be a bit short. (so unlike me! big smile).

You made reference to "the queen of heaven" or "cakes to the queen of heaven" something like that. Said you would expound later. When you get a chance, would you share what you know about it.

I "suspect" sometimes that Irish are actually the tribe of Judah. There are a couple of reasons I suspect this. When I was studying Irish gailic, I found that making "cakes to the queen of heaven" was a major practice of theirs. Then when I was "listening" to Irish gailic I was shocked to see how very much it sounded like hebrew. There are a few more, well... personal, but... I need to find my notes on it. Anyway... so my ears perked up a bit when you mentioned that.
I sometimes suspect the native Indians being the tribe of Joseph and the jews as we know them the tribe of Levi. I have other "suspesions" too... but... thats all they are.
(smile)
I once had a very scary vision involving an egyptian woman about a 1 1/2 ago... it shyed me away from "egyptian" period. I got "scared off" so to speak.
But I am learning from what you and Bratu write.

Well... I gotta go dear sister in Yah, Hope to talk with you again.

may Yah be with you always.
D'

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

02-10-2001, 01:34 AM

Shalom / Hetepu

To continue with universal opinion.....

The next Scribe named MaleStorm, posts.....

I agree with you regarding Apep, with one caveat. IMO, Apep not only represents evil. Apep is representative of the ability of man to commit isfet(sin) without remorse or regret. It is a pure and conscious evil which when left unchecked, brings disorder to the universe. Thus, as you noted, Set, being that he represents brute strength and the will to use it, is on the point and first defense against Apep.

One question though, could it be that Apep represents chaos and disorder as well as evil? Or does he represent one or the other?

Hotep~~!!

MaleStorm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sandy, I love a Truth Seeker.
Keep on keepin on Sister.
I will respond soon.

Ishshah

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

02-10-2001, 08:47 PM

Hi All, Hetepu / Shalom,

Here is my promised responses, Praise Yah.

The Queen of Heaven.

There are three kinds of Jews in the world. I do not know how many consider the Sabbath female, but the Falasha of Ethiopia do. I found it very interesting to have found this out and would love to know if other Jews also practice this. They call the Sabbath the Queen.

Sanbat/Sabbath

The weekly Sabbath is called 'first sabbath' (sanbat qadamit) and they personify it as a female figure.

The Sabbath Queen Sits upon the throne surrounded by fire, and watches over the House of Israel or what is known as Beta Israel. In regards to the female figure in Ethiopia. Their Christians say that Mary is their mediator. The Beta Israel say the Sabbath is theirs.

Several prayers describe the personified Sabbath. The Sabbath evening prayer (barek sanbateya) due to the refrain, “I am alive.” Waradat sanbat describes the descent of
Sabbath from heaven to earth, where she is crowned by angels.

From what I understand so far, Torah or Sh’kinah is a female covering in Judaism. But when also considering that there is a King of Heaven and supposedly a Son. There then
must be a Queen. I wonder why Jeremiah prophesied for them to cease libation to the Maleketh of Shamayim?

Jeremiah 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our
princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
20 Then Jeremiah said unto all the people, to the men, and to the women, and to all the people which had given him that answer, saying,
21 The incense that ye burned in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem, ye, and your fathers, your kings, and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the LORD remember them, and came it not into his mind?
22 So that the LORD could no longer bear, because of the evil of your doings, and because of the abominations which ye have committed; therefore is your land a desolation, and an astonishment, and a curse, without an inhabitant, as at
this day.
23 Because ye have burned incense, and because ye have sinned against the LORD, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD, nor walked in his law, nor in his statutes,
nor in his testimonies; therefore this evil is happened unto you, as at this day.
24 Moreover Jeremiah said unto all the people, and to all the women, Hear the word of the LORD, all Judah that are in the land of Egypt:
25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.
26 Therefore hear ye the word of the LORD, all Judah that dwell in the land of Egypt; Behold, I have sworn by my great name, saith the LORD, that my name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, The Lord GOD liveth.
27 Behold, I will watch over them for evil, and not for good: and all the men of Judah that are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by the famine, until there be an end of them.
28 Yet a small number that escape the sword shall return out of the land of Egypt into the land of Judah, and all the remnant of Judah, that are gone into the land of Egypt to
sojourn there, shall know whose words shall stand, mine, or theirs.
29 And this shall be a sign unto you, saith the LORD, that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil:
30 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will give Pharaohhophra king of Egypt into the hand of his enemies, and into the hand of them that seek his life; as I gave Zedekiah king of
Judah into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, his enemy, and that sought his life.

I find it interesting, that this happened to Judah in Egypt and that the Falasha are their neighbors. This offers something in regards to ancient tradition. The question will now be, is it correct tradition or in error. If the Queen of Heaven comes down on the Sabbath and the Christ said he was the Lord of the Sabbath (The Queen). I would read this as one of the Lords of the Court, not Lord over Her. But that leaves us with the need of further research, if the Sabbath is the Queen. Who is this Queen? Is it Sheba and Solomon? If it is the Spirit of Truth / Rauch HaKodesh, then why do we not have these teachings? I see this also as a living thing like Truth. Truth is also manifesting to the seeker. And the Sabbath always comes. I do believe it is more then a day. Is it not also well with us, when we walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh, when we revere Sh’kinah, who shall not be blashphemied? Yah’s woman is also called Wisdom / Chokmah / His Delight. And then we have the Womn of Revelation. The Falasha say the Queen is crowned by angels.

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

What does this have to do with Set.

Well, if the Lord of the Sabbath and his Mother are both ruling the day of the planet Saturn / Satan, and the resurrection day is Sunday, the day of the SUN-g-d, then this weekend thing is quite interesting in Egyptian connections.

The Falasha spell Jerusalem as Iyyarusalem.

With Sandy’s study on Herusalem, this clearly shows the Greeks being influenced by ancient Egypt.

She had posted: "L" and "R" interchangeable in Egyptian, hence "Heru" becomes "Helu". Put a Greek ending on "Helu" and you get "Helios" = Greek sun god.

Sandy Asks: Have any of you ever followed the information concerning the "face on mars"?

Ishshah says no, but I would love some info. It will also correlate with Bratu who is influenced by Mars and the Lord of the Sabbath whose Queen sits on a Throne surrounded by Fire. Just Kidding. Hi Bratu :-) You know that you must have air to keep your fires burning :-)

Hi Bratu, are you better yet? I am sorry you lost your last post. HI DeAnna. I hope that sort of expanded some thoughts. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

02-10-2001, 09:04 PM

Shalom DeAnna,

One last thing:

You said: I "suspect" sometimes that Irish are actually the tribe of Judah. There are a couple of reasons I suspect this. When I was studying Irish gailic, I found that making "cakes to the queen of heaven" was a major practice of theirs. Then when I was "listening" to Irish gailic I was
shocked to see how very much it sounded like hebrew. There are a few more, well... personal, but... I need to find my notes on it.

The Celts were very influenced by African folklore. There woman kept the tradition of the fertility rights. In Europe, however, this later made them witches, rather then Jews or followers of Egyptian ways. They became pagans. I am wondering about this female entity now, and why it has been made bad by the Patriarchs. All the discovery of the need for a female Lamb in the Sin offering also coralates. I know the bible says so in Jeremiah, but us conspiracy theorists know that there was a political agenda in the Nicean Counsel. Have you ever noticed how Jeremiah contradicts the Law of Sacrifice? I love Jeremiah, but it makes you wonder (not doubt)but wonder and become steadfast enough to search until the Spirit of Truth reveals. Fire that keeps us seeking, so to speak.

You said: I sometimes suspect the native Indians being the tribe of Joseph and the Jews as we know them the tribe of Levi. I have other "suspesions" too... but... thats all they are.

Interesting suspicions, but I suppose that is entirely another thread.

Ishshah

DeAnna

02-11-2001, 07:34 AM

Shalom Ishshah,

Thank you for that study! Well... here I go, back to Jeremiah... (smile). As far as my "suspicions" go... I should have not spoken about them. Last night I saw how we are to only "work" during the "daylight' hours. This I perceived to be... only share that which we are able to "see". What has "come to light". My suspicions are still quite shrouded and I should let them rest while it is "dark". know what I mean?

I have so many "Studies' going right now. I should pick one and stick to ONE. I was never a real organized person. Praise be to Yah that anything gets straightened out at all!
smile.

As far as the "son" goes. I have come to see that the true "son", the "only begotten", is "The Word" of Yah. For it was the first thing that proceeded from Him. And His Word, brought forth manifestation. For it was/is by His Word that all things came into being. Thus we have John 1:
"In the beginning was The Word... and > Nothing < was made, that wasn't made by Him. (The Word).
The Word is the "seed" that is buried in us. Thus we are given power to become the "sons" of Yah.

As far as the actual "Queen of Heaven" goes...
This is what comes to mind.
We, are the bride. With all intent and purposes, Yah is the only "male" or the only one with "Seed" (Word). That goes into us. The bride. For even Yahshua refers to his diciples (men) as "bride". Now think about a "wifes" role.
She is not to work, she is not to be the "provider", her main role is to care for the children and be subserviant unto her husband. Her life is her husbands.

I think those that offered insense and cakes etc. to the Queen of Heaven is symbolic of us offering up homage unto ourself. Saying/thinking, that "we" work a work. That "we", provide for ourselves, therefore not giving praise or credit to the one that does provide the oil and the wheat. For we are the "receivers" of the Seed (word) not the givers. We are of the earth. We are to love the "queen of heaven". For we are to love eachother! But not "follow" or worship eachother.

However... if we are indeed the queen, or queens in the making... we are surrounded by fire. (smile).
In rev. 12 "The Woman clothed with the sun". Is us clothed in the Word. The moon under her feet shows forth her walk. For the "moon" is symobic of the bride as well. For we have no light of our own, but reflect the light of the son or Yahs Word. A woman in the flesh is on the same cycle as the moon. approx. 28 days. In the 'middle' of the month a woman ovalates or is "full". The twelve stars (smaller lights) around her head Is most likely symbolic of the 12 tribes, as it is through reading about them that 'guide' us in the night/our darkness. Or it could be the 12 diciples... same concept.
The woman "pained" to be delivered. As we pain to give birth to the holy spirit or The Word of Truth in us.
And satan (the adversary) is waiting to devour the word of truth as soon as it is delivered. This "war" that takes place in "heaven" is "in spirit". Our spirit. In our hearts and minds. For it is in our minds that Satan "accuses" us. But the "accuser" shall be cast down, for all of those that keep the commandments of Yah and have the "testimony" of the son. Which is; "It is not I that doeth the works, but the Father in me, HE doeth the works."

The "flood" that the adversary lets out of his "mouth" is the flood of doctrines. But we "the earth" open up our mouth and "swallow" the flood. (all the many doctrines) and though at times we feel that we are going to drown, after all the info is absorbed and untruths are discarded etc. Those that put their trust in their maker are able to forebear.
This is the understanding that has been given me on
Rev. 12.

Well... I am off to look up your references.
Thank you again!

Love,
D'

"And he was clothed in a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of Yah"
rev. 19:13

Spying

02-11-2001, 08:20 AM

Hi Ishshah,

Man is made in the image of YAH. Woman was taken from man, and then she is reunited again with man. That is the purpose of marriage. In order for the spirits to be united, a man and a woman must learn how to live together in peace. This is a skill that a lot of men and woman have acquired in their walk through this physical life. The man must learn how to submit from a position of strength, and the woman must learn how to rule from a position of weakness. As they learn each other's role, they become one, a unified being.

YAHWEH ELOHIM is a unified being composed of both natures, male and female. With the ELOHIM there is no giving in marriage. The ELOHIM exist together in unity. Combined or united, they are "the being" which we commonly refer to as the FATHER. They all submit, and they all rule. Strictly speaking, there is no queen of Heaven. The ELOHIM are all Kings, each of them have learned how to submit to each other, and each of them have learned how to rule over themselves and each other. That is the definition of a King. This Kingship is a position of service. The greater the service, the greater the King. There is one King of Kings and YAH of YAHS. His name is Messiah YAHUSHUA. He is the greater King because of his greater service.

So, to make a long story short, burning incense to the queen of Heaven is a no no. The Father has no desire to be worshipped as a queen. The concept of the Queen of Heaven is humanistic. It is earthy. It is derived from looking at the image of YAH, man, who happens to be both male and female, and then making the fatal mistake of looking at YAH and judging that YAH is just like man, separated male and female entities. YAH is one. He is both male and female. What I am saying here, Ishshah, is that in the Kingdom of ELOHIM, a spirit that was female in this physical life, could have a greater position of service than any of the spirits who were males in their physical lives because she has learned how to serve others, she has learned how to submit, and she has learned how to rule her husband and herself from weakness. In the Kingdom of ELOHIM, this spirit is a King. She is not a queen, and believe me, that is the recognition she is due.

Sincerely, Spying

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

02-11-2001, 11:14 AM

Wow Deanna,

The Spirit is all over your words sister. I only have one issue to mention. The first thing that was created was Wisdom, which is before the Word issued forth from the Mouth of the Highest Yah who rideth upon the heavens and not in them. Who is Wisdom? His Delight, is a 'SHE'. Proverbs 8. There must be a woman and an egg to conceive. I have one rule in getting to know Yah. It has to fit into the Old Testament and Universal Law - His Creation. I loved everything else in your post however. The Spirit of Truth was all over it. More on this in a moment.

Spying,

Thank you for your response. I totally disagree with it however. Elohyim also means goddesses and the Elohyim or Mighty Ones, are not Yah. A Rightly divided Word will reveal this. Also, Omnipotence is both Alpha and Omega, Male and Female, beginning and end. Yah rides upon the heavens, not in them. We will not call Yah a god, elohyim, male or female, king or queen, but YHVH T'sidqenuw.

Jeremiah 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and
Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby
he shall be called, YHVH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Please notice how the things of Yah are manifestations and not literal things. Righteousness, Truth, Revelation, Transformation, Sanctifacation. Yah is a Verb, not a Thing.
Yah is Spirit, not flesh. All things on earth are only an image, and the Image is not to be worshipped in any way. In the Omnipotence and manifestations of Yah, there is no image, but Spiritual occurances and manifestations like Word becoming Flesh. But let us not forget that Flesh turns again into Spirit.

I do agree about what DeAnna said about do not worship anything but Yah. But this would include not worshipping the Son either. I do not believe in Images. The Mother for me, is Wisdom, and the Son the Word. The story is an allegory for the process of times, dispensations and manifestations of the Divine Universal Birthing of Souls. This Macrocosmic occurance is so beyond man's ways, we cannot imagine. (Image) It cannot be imaged.

I agree with the male/female merger as a symbolism of ruling from weakness and humbling in strength. But not that a Queen becomes a King. In reality we leave flesh and become a Spirit. The rib story is a controversial issue, because the Adam man, doesn't match the Adam, species, male and female. The Adam/Atom is all creation, not just the man. Why was man named ruddy and Eve the Life Giver, then it turned around that he gave life to Eve. There is some of the Nicean Council Political Agenda of Patriarchal rule, when you yourself said that the man should learn how to humble in strength. If it cannot fit into the image, it is not Yah made. There is your man made things. Do you ever see a human made from a rib or a virgin making a baby? Maybe cloning will confirm such a process, but remember that the devil is who is trying to imitate Yah and say he is the ruler and life-giver, The Image wishes to be Yah, when Eve has always been the Life-Giver.

In Universal Law, we will travel back to Egypt for a moment. Their is a creature called the Scarab Beetle. This beetle lays it's seed in dung, then rolls it backwards in the path of the Sun/Son. Deanna's Bride is very close to this analogy, we just have that missing Wisdom. Let's see why. We can see this gestation process in all egg laying incubators. The father is often the one who sits on the egg to keep it warm. Back to this Scarab dung. The orb is earth, the seeds are in the egg of earth, which is the womb of the Universe, gestating. The Husband of this Bride is the Sun - ie. Bride and Son, not Father and Mother.

YHVH T'sidqenuw is all encompassing and beyond man's ways, for Omnipotence is all things. Mather's Kabballah states that Y H V H is Father, Mother, Son and Bride. With DeAnna's soul expression and yours, both are still on earth. She with Son and Bride and you with...well, with...I don't know. Respect even still. Yah ( Y and H ) are way beyond those concepts, but DeAnna's soul is following Universal Law, designated in all Creation, she merely skipped Wisdom. She expressed the Son and the Bride as the Father and Mother. The Son and the Bride marry, not the Father and the Bride. The Father is Omnipotence and the Mother Sh'kinah, His Spirit and Wisdom. The Son is the Word and bridgroom and the bride is us. You on the other hand are against the voice of His Creation and are making woman a man. This is against the bible. Woman are not to wear men's clothes and the creation speaks of The Omnipotent Designer of all things. And the daughters of Jerusalem and Zion receive the first dominion.

Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

DeAnna was in total accord with the Word.

But Women do not become men.

Mic 4:8 And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

I can believe man and woman become spirit however.

There are actually 42 letters in the true name of Yah. These are 42 manifestations of His Works. It would be a blessing to do a study on what they might be. 42 verbs in the bible that describe his intent and purpose on earth. The Hebrew Language only has 22 letters. But the Sanskrit has 52, and all have a meaning. The Modern Hebrew is actually a borrowed and morphed culture from the older ones. The letters have always had meaning. The fact they form words is where perversion begins. Who can read the letter?

John7:15 And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

For the words often do not describe the Divine Meanings, that truely lie therein. The Hebrew had no periods, vowels, etc. The Modern version is a perversion and one day we will return to the pure language. Thus Notariqon of the Hassids and Y'shua's statement that Disciple know the mysteries and other only parables.

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of YHVH, to serve him with one consent.

With all my love of Truth
Ishshah
Who gives all the Glory to Yah

Spying

02-12-2001, 06:48 AM

Hi Ishshah,

"Totally disagree" is pretty strong, isn't it? I suppose total disagreement is ok. What is the worst that can happen? We either have to walk a long ways to come to agreement, or someone else must come along and show us a few shortcuts. The spirit of YAH is fully able to do that.

YAHWEH ELOHIM according to my view is the whole shebang. There is nothing outside of his control save for the rebellious Elohim. It is my view that YAHWEH ELOHIM emptied himself (themselves) into the ground (man, Adam and Eve). This was a burial of a murdered victim. Spirit is entombed in flesh. Through this process, it is my view that the YAHWEH ELOHIM each gave an essential portion of themselves to the being that is now known as Messiah Yahushua. This portion was divided. Adam had a portion, and Eve had a portion. Some of Messiah Yahushua that was given to Adam and Eve was further divided amongst the men and women we do now refer to as the Elect. The rest of Messiah Yahushua was furthered divided into the whole of mankind. So, if you can read between the lines here, Messiah Yahushua is really the whole shebang. Messiah Yahushua is YAHWEH ELOHIM resurrected or reborn. This is an accomplished fact. In effect, Messiah Yahushua put Humpty Dumpty back together again, and Messiah accomplished this task in such a manner that the rebellious Elohim are left out in the cold. The rebellious were lost from YAHWEH ELOHIM, but now YAHWEH ELOHIM has been restored back to HIS original glory minus the rebellious ELOHIM. These rebellious would include Satan, Set, the false Jesus Christ which is preached today, and all the other Elohim of this world.

The regathering together of YAHWEH ELOHIM took place at the Cross:
John 12:32
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (KJV)The secret behind this gathering is detailed in the Torah. I liken the Torah to a manual that details the creation of a hydrogen bomb. This manual is masked. You can read it and not understand a thing unless you have the key. Messiah discovered the key, and he put the bomb together, and he exploded the bomb, and fusion occurred. The ELOHIM are gathered again. What is their name? Moses said:
Deut 32:2-3
2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass:
3 Because I will publish the name of the YAHWEH: ascribe ye greatness unto our ELOHIM. (KJV)The phrase that for some reason caught my eye in the above prophecy has also been translated, "as the gentle rain upon the tender grass". The Latter Rain can come gently as a sprinkle or violently as a flood. I love gentle rain. With gentleness, we can understand these things together, Ishshah.

So, what is really the name of YAHWEH ELOHIM? Is it not also Messiah Yahushua? If it is also Messiah Yahushua, it is not also Paul? How about Peter? We can't leave out John, or James, can we? Surely, HIS name should also include Ishshah? How about Bratu? What about Sandy? If so, ascribe ye greatness unto our ELOHIM.

Sincerely, Spying

P. S. Man was created male and female. Originally, I believe that Eve was a side of Adam. In my thinking, she is the backside of Adam.

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

02-12-2001, 10:22 AM

Yes, Spying, someone will have to bridge this gap in Yah's Mighty Name, Because Woman as his backside is perposterous.
Man was created male and female is also incorrect. The species was created male and female.

Yah is not imbalanced, nor are his ways like ours. Your treatise digs a deeper hole as it goes.You said nothing is out of Yah's control save for the rebellious Elohim.

The Rebellious Elohyim are in His Control my friend. Have you never read Job, or how Yah put the lies in the prophet's mouths. All things are in Yah's control.

But I love you still. Because I don't agree STRONGLY, and actually, I did agree with some of what you said, so I take TOTALLY DISAGREE back, and say I disagree with your male/female treatise of the Omnipotent Ruler and Creator. That does not mean I have any opinion on your character. You are lovely. Your words in these two posts are wild however. Keep on Seeking on....As we all are doing. Yah will reveal to all of us who seek Him.

Most Fruitful Blessings to you
Iyahna

I have a PS also, There are some things in your post that are very interesting, but I have to go to work. Poured Himself into the ground is one. This is the same as the Scarab Beetle pouring seed into this dungball called earth.
I hope to continue with this soon.

Sandy

02-12-2001, 11:05 AM

Spying wrote:
YAHWEH ELOHIM emptied himself emptied
to become empty become unoccupied to deprive of the contents made void discharged
I really cannot agree with such a statement.

Spying wrote:
Messiah Yahushua is YAHWEH ELOHIM resurrected or reborn. Please show me one single verse of Hebrew Scripture to support this statement.

Spying

02-12-2001, 11:43 AM

Hi Sandy,

Sure:
Num 19:17
17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel: (KJV)

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-12-2001, 12:19 PM

Spying, please explain how this verse supports your statement "Messiah Yahushua is YAHWEH ELOHIM resurrected or reborn".

Spying

02-12-2001, 04:02 PM

Hi Sandy,

Please, help me out a little here, Sandy. Who or what do you think that living water is a symbol for? Can you hazard a guess for me? If you are reluctant, is there anyone else who would venture an answer?

Once we figure out what the living water represents, then we can work to discover what must be done with the living water. The Torah is very specific. It commands that living water be added to the ashes in a vessel. Who or what do the ashes symbolize? What does the vessel symbolize? No doubt, a container of some sort? It must be a container that will hold water. Remember that I said that the Torah is masked. You must get behind the symbols to understand what is happening.

This is the real reason that Messiah taught in parables. It forced his disciples, his students to think in terms of symbols. It made them all expect to understand a hidden meaning.

Hint: There are at least two Hebrew scriptures which point blank tell you who is the source of living water. They are both in the same book.

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-12-2001, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by Spying
Hi Sandy,

Please, help me out a little here, Sandy. Who or what do you think that living water is a symbol for? Can you hazard a guess for me? If you are reluctant, is there anyone else who would venture an answer? Once we figure out what the living water represents, then we can work to discover what must be done with the living water. The Torah is very specific. It commands that living water be added to the ashes in a vessel. Who or what do the ashes symbolize? What does the vessel symbolize? No doubt, a container of some sort? It must be a container that will hold water. Yes, I know. You believe it to be a symbol for Yahushua. Let's take a look at what Numbers 19 is talking about. Numbers 19
14) This is the torah (instruction) for when a man dies in a tent; Everyone who comes into the tent and all that is in the tent shall be unclean seven days.
15) And every open vessel which does not have a covering of thread on it, it is contaminated.
16) And whoever in the open field touches one that has been pierced with a sword or one that has died of himself or the bone of a man or a grave, shall be contaminated seven days.
17) And they shall take for the contaminated one from the ashes of the cremated sin offering and put on it fresh waters from a vessel.
18) And an uncontaminated man shall take hyssup and shall dip it in the water and sprinkle on the tent and upon all the vessels and on the souls that were there and on the one that touched the bone, slain, dead or grave.
19) And the uncontaminated one shall sprinkle the contaminated one on the third day and the seventh day. And on the seventh day he shall cleanse himself; and wash his clothes and bathe in water and shall be clean at evening.
20) And the man that is contaminated and does not cleanse himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the assembly, because he has contaminated that set apart of . The water for impurity has not been sprinkled on him; he is contaminated.
Please note that the living water is in actuality fresh water. Look it up for yourself (#2416 in Strong's).

Remember that I said that the Torah is masked. You must get behind the symbols to understand what is happening. This is the real reason that Messiah taught in parables. It forced his disciples, his students to think in terms of symbols. It made them all expect to understand a hidden meaning. The Torah (instructions) given to Israel was masked? I don't think so. Deuteronomy 30
10) You shall listen to the voice of your elohy, to keep his commandments and his statues which are written in the book of Torah (instructions)...
11) For this command which I am commanding you today is not too hard for you...
14) For the word is very near to you, in yur mouth and your hert, that you may do it.
15) Behold, I have set before you today life and good and death and evil.
What good are a set of instructions if they are MASKED? The very purpose of instruction is to teach. instruction
the act of teaching; knowledge imparted; orders or directions. masked
concealed or hidden; disguised. Personally, I feel that what you are saying is opposite of the true purpose of YHUH's Torah (instructions).

Hint: There are at least two Hebrew scriptures which point blank tell you who is the source of living water. They are both in the same book. I am getting tired. Please, just tell me which ones they are.

DeAnna

02-12-2001, 08:34 PM

Shalom Ishshah,

Proverbs 7:4 Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:

8:1 Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

8:22 Yah "possessed" me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains
abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the
face of the depth:

8:30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight,
rejoicing always before him;

HaleluYah sister!... I should have stuck with
"Only begotten SON". (smile)

Though I do not see her as "mother".
please bear with me...
I'm pretty sure the "church" is our "mother". Right or wrong (whatever church we attended) she is who Yah "divorces", (Is. 50:1 and Hos 2:2,5 and 4:5) and she is
who started or gave birth to our spiritual thinking. We all have one. (smile) She is who played the harlot, or "prostituted" the Word of Life. Said, "pay me", and I'll give you an intimate relationship with your heavenly father. And brought in all the pagan holidays, teaching children to believe in a Santa etc. Raising us wrong, so to speak.

But we are her children none the less. And Yah loves us none the less.
I think this is why the manifestation of the men having many wives, many children.
There are many churches, many children. But we find ourselves crying "abba" (father), not "mother". This is not to say there are not good mothers. But in the
flesh we find an abundance of women who care more for the "men" in their life then their children. In the flesh it is common for the dad to have to "straighten" out the
children, for the mothers (as a rule) cannot. This is also why we see dads "leaving" their children and the their mothers, as Yah did us. for a moment. (Isaiah 54:7)

Again... this is not "all", but it is "general". But I do see the tables turning in this day. Dad's are raising their children and mothers are leaving. Though this is hard to see in the flesh, it is wonderous and beautiful in the spirit. Yah is gathering us back, never to leave us again.

I am really short on time. Please forgive me. I love your understandings. Take care of our brother Spying, he has taught me a lot. Sometimes you have to read
and reread his posts... he moves slow. But often it's worth the wait.

Love your sister,
D'

Spying

02-13-2001, 06:11 AM

Hi Torah,

When was the last time you participated in the ritual of the Red Heifer? Have you ever had the ashes sprinkled on you? Have you ever felt the need? You know, this ritual is designed to separate you from your sin. When was the last time you watched the ritual taking place? This ritual is foundational to all worship, Torah. It must take place before you are allowed to come into the community of Israel and participate in the doing of the Torah. Until you accomplish this ritual, you are unclean. You are on the outside looking in. The ritual of the Red Heifer, this ritual of purification from sin and death, it is the ORDINANCEof the TORAH:
Num 19:2
2 This is the ordinance of the law which the YAHWEH hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke: (KJV)Now, I know that the doing of the Torah is in your heart, Torah. I know that the Torah is not in heaven, that the Torah is here, that it is very close to you, that the Torah is the instruction of YAHWEH which you are required to do.

Why don't you do it? Why do you continually choose death over life? You have never been purified once, not even once in your life. What is your excuse? Could it be that the instruction of YAH is actually very far from you? Torah, when was the last time anyone participated in the ritual of the Red Heifer? When was the last time anyone was purified from sin and death so that they could lawfully worship YAH?

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-13-2001, 07:20 AM

Spying wrote:
When was the last time anyone was purified from sin and death so that they could lawfully worship YAH? I don't know Spying, why don't you tell me.

Spying

02-14-2001, 05:55 AM

Hi Sandy,

The Author of Hebrews makes this comment concerning the ashes of the Red Heifer:
Heb 9:13-14
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to ELOHIM, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living ELOHIM? (KJV)I make mention of these two verses because the Greek work translated "sanctifieth" in the above quote is a present active tense. This means that, at the time that the Author writes, the actual physical ritual of purification is still taking place in Israel. When the Book of Hebrews was written, an individual could still go to the Temple and enter the process of purification. So, we have a record here that the ritual was still in operation in the first century.

The Book of Acts verifies this operation. Jews in the Diaspora were required to submit to the process of purification as they returned to Jerusalem. It was assumed that travelers would automatically be made unclean through coming in contact with a grave. Paul, himself, submitted to being purified at the direction of the Elders of Assembly:
Acts 21:24
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. (KJV)So, Sandy, here is a clear choice for you. You desired, on the "Is all Israel saved?" Thread, an explanation of keeping the Law spiritually verses physically. This record in Acts shows you an example of someone who was willing to do both. Paul knew full well that Messiah had purged his conscience from dead works to serve the living (According to you, Sandy, this should actually be "the fresh ELOHIM") ELOHIM through the Cross. Paul believed in this spiritual purification:
Titus 2:11-15
11 For the grace of ELOHIM that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great ELOHIM and our Saviour YAHUSHUA MESSIAH;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee. (KJV)At the same time, Paul proved himself more than willing to submit to the actual physical process of purification to prove to this fellow Jews that he was not teaching against the physical keeping of the Law in the Diaspora. The Tzaddikim follow in the footsteps of Paul.

We know that there are two ways to be purified. We know that you yourself live in the Diaspora. Have you ever touched or come into contact with a dead body? Has anyone ever died in your presence? Have you ever walked over or touched a grave? If you have, then you are unclean? Now, you have two choices. You can in all haste travel to Jerusalem and devote the rest of your life seeking to discover the buried physical ashes of the last physically sacrificed Red Cow, or you can express to us, the Tzaddikim, a desire to learn about spiritual purification through Messiah Yahushua. We will accept for now the sincere desire to do either. Eventually, you must accomplish one or the other, Sandy. If you do not, then you are unclean.

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-14-2001, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Spying
Hi Sandy,

The Author of Hebrews makes this comment concerning the ashes of the Red Heifer:Heb 9:13-14
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
14 How much more shall the blood of Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to ELOHIM, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living ELOHIM? (KJV)I make mention of these two verses because the Greek work translated "sanctifieth" in the above quote is a present active tense. This means that, at the time that the Author writes, the actual physical ritual of purification is still taking place in Israel. When the Book of Hebrews was written, an individual could still go to the Temple and enter the process of purification. So, we have a record here that the ritual was still in operation in the first century.

The Book of Acts verifies this operation. Jews in the Diaspora were required to submit to the process of purification as they returned to Jerusalem. It was assumed that travelers would automatically be made unclean through coming in contact with a grave. I am not sure what you mean here. The Diaspora was the scattering of the Israelites. That certainly is not the same as a Jew going on a trip and returning to Jerusalem.
Paul, himself, submitted to being purified at the direction of the Elders of Assembly:Acts 21:24
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. (KJV) Look at Acts 21:23 and you will see that the four me had a vow on themselves. I believe this to be a Nazarite vow (Numbers 6). I think if you check into this Paul was taking part in a Nazarite vow, not in the purification process concerning the red heifer.

So, Sandy, here is a clear choice for you. You desired, on the "Is all Israel saved?" Thread, an explanation of keeping the Law spiritually verses physically. This record in Acts shows you an example of someone who was willing to do both. Paul knew full well that Messiah had purged his conscience from dead works to serve the living (According to you, Sandy, this should actually be "the fresh ELOHIM") Chay (H#2416) alive; hence raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year)...

So are you saying that it cannot simply mean fresh water instead of spiritualizing it and insisting that it means living water.

In your post you quoted from the book of Titus. I too will quote from the book of Titus. Titus 1
1) Paulos, a slave of Theou, but an apostle of Iesous Christou, according to the faith of the elect of Theou and full knowledge of truth according to piety,
2) Upon hope of perpetual life, which the Theos that does not lie promised before times perpetual.
3) But revealed in its own times the proclamation of his word, which I was entrusted, by the command of our savior, Theo;
4) To Titus, a true child according to a common faith. Grace, mercy, peace from Theou father and Kuriou Iesou Christou our savior.

Spying

02-15-2001, 09:56 PM

Hi Sandy,

The following quote from the Tractate Berakoth proves that the land outside Palestine was considered the Diaspora:
"R. Safra said: R. Abbahu used to relate that when Hananiah the son of R. Joshua's brother went down to the Diaspora,5 he began to intercalate the years and fix new moons outside Palestine. 63aThe following quote from the Tractate Abodah Zarah and its notes indicated that such lands were ritually unclean. Travelers to these land were required to undergo purification upon their return:
"Eighty years before the destruction of the Temple it was decreed that neighbouring countries of Palestine5 were to be regarded as ritually unclean.6 
(5) Syria and Asia Minor. (6) One who went outside Palestine was regarded as defiled and on returning had to undergo the usual process of purification. According to Graetz this measure was intended to stem the migration of the people, and in particular of the priests, from the Holy Land." 8bSo, Sandy, you are an unclean Gentile (Acts 10:28) living in an unclean land, and according to Jewish Law you need to be purified. You are kidding yourself if you think for one moment that under the Law that you can worship ELOHIM without you yourself submitting to the process of purification as outlined in Numbers 19.

When you consider Acts 21:24 and Numbers 6:9 side by side, you should be able to see that a Nazarite defied by the dead was required to submit to the process of purification before he renewed his vow. On the seventh day of purification, he shaved his dead after being cleansed.
Acts 21:24
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. (KJV)

Num 6:9
9 And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it. (KJV)

Here is the complete Strong's definition for "chay":

2416 chay (khah'-ee);

from 2421; alive; hence, raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively:

KJV-- + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life (-time), live (-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.

According to the above definition "chay" can mean "living". You were the one that insisted that it can only be translated "fresh", not I.

Sandy, the Septuagint translates the Hebrew phrase as "living water, zao hudor". So, the Rabbis who translated the Hebrew into the Greek do not support your idea that we must use "fresh" rather than "living". The same Greek phrase is used in John's Gospel:
John 4:10
10 Yahushua answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of ELOHIM, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. (KJV)So, how about it, Sandy? You do recognize that you do have need of entering the process of purification, don't you?

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-17-2001, 07:54 AM

Ezekiel 36:24-28
24) For I will take you from the nations and gather you out of all the lands, and bring you into your land.
25) Then I will sprinkle clean waters on you and you shall be clean. I will cleanse you from all your defilement and from all your idols.
26) And I will also give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and I will give to you a heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and you shall keep my judgments and do them.
28) And you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers. And you shall be my people and I will be your Elohim.

Spying

02-20-2001, 05:14 PM

Hi Sandy,

I would like you to review and think through your circumstance and position. You have over and over denied the validity and the authority of the New Testament. You deny the establishment of the New Covenant; eventhough, under the New Covenant, you are already considered clean:
Acts 10:15
15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time,What ELOHIM hath cleansed, that call not thou common.(KJV)Tzaddiks like Peter and Paul understood the implications of that cleansing through Messiah Yahushua. That is why they, being Jews, were willing to take the Gospel to Gentiles. They are my elder brothers, and you have on a number of occasions spoken against and maligned Paul who did live by this faith. So, don't say that you haven't spoken against the Tzaddikim. I want you to know that I take all of this into account when dealing with you, and I do not hold your views or your criticisms against you, but I will hold your feet to the fire according to the Word.

If you deny the cleansing of the New Testament, this scripture gives indication of your only recourse:
Acts 10:28
28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but ELOHIM hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.(KJV)If you deny this cleansing, then you must turn to the Law or Old Covenant. You have no other choice under the Law. For your cleansing, the Law in no uncertain terms requires that you physically go through the process of purification in order to be considered clean. If you can't, for some reason, go through this lawful process, it is not the Law's fault. It is not YAH's fault. It is not the Temple's fault. It is not the Jews' fault. It is your fault. You are unclean. No ifs, ands, and buts about it.

This I have already in no uncertain terms pointed out to you. I see that you don't like being called "unclean". I wouldn't either, but that is exactly your position under the Law or Old Covenant which was at one time the circumstance and position that you desired for yourself. I think I have heard you mention in the past that you believed that the Hebrews Scriptures were authoritative for your life. If that is not the real way that you think, then please advise me.

Now, by replying back to me by quoting Ezekiel 36, you show me thereby that you are now ready to cast behind your back also the Law which is the very foundation of the Hebrew Scriptures. Ezekiel cannot possibly offer an alternate way of cleansing that bypasses what the Law requires. If that is what Ezekiel does do in Ezekiel 36, then you will have to explain it to me, Sandy? You will have to explain to me how any cleansing can come which makes void the requirements of the Law? So, you still must deal with the Law. If the Law is not valid, then there is no defilement in any case. If there is no defilement, then there is no need for YAHWEH to come and cleanse you, is there? You are in a catch 22. You should not have appealed to Ezekiel. By appealing to Ezekiel, you are admitting to me that you are one of those unclean ones that YAHWEH must come and cleanse.

So, accordingly, why should not the Tzaddikim declare you unclean, when you youself appeal to a scripture which you believe promises you cleansing sometime in the future? If you need this cleansing, you are unclean.

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-20-2001, 08:03 PM

<pre>Ezekiel 36:23-28
23) ...and the nations will know that I am YHUH when I am made holy,
through you (Israel), in their eyes.
24) For I will take you from the nations and gather you out of all the lands
and bring you into your land.
25) Then I will sprinkle clean waters on you and you
will be clean,
and I will cleanse you from all your defilement and from all your idols.
26) And I will also give you a new heart and I will put a new spirit within you.
And I will take away the stoney heart out of your flesh
and I will give to you a heart of flesh.
27) And I will put my spirit within you and cause
you to walk in my statutes and you will keep my judgments and do them.
28) And you will dwell in the land that I gave to
your forefathers. And you will be my people and I will be your Elohim.

Spying, you are failing to look at the whole context here.
There are a number of things that take place in the above Scriptures, not just being cleansed.

YHUH says he will accomplish all these things:

I will take you from the nations and gather you out of all the lands,
and bring you into your land.
THEN I will sprinkle clean waters on you and you shall be clean.
I will cleanse you from all your defilement and from all your idols.
I will also give you a new heart.
I will put a new spirit within you.
I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and I will give to you a heart of flesh.
I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk
in my statutes and you shall keep my judgments and do them.
you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your forefathers.
you shall be my people and I will be your Elohim.

This echoes:

Jeremiah 31:33
BUT THIS WILL BE the Covenant that I will cut with the House of Israel after those days,
declares YHUH:

I will put My Torah in their inward parts and I will write it on their hearts. I will be their Elohim and they will be My people. They will no longer teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother,
saying, Know YHUH, because they will all know Me.
From the least of them to the greatest of them... I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sins no more.

Jeremiah 32
37) Behold, I will gather them out of all the lands where I have driven them in my anger
and in my fury, in great indignation.
And I will again bring them to this place,
and I will make them live in safety.
38) And they will be my people and I will be their Elohim.
39) And I will give them one heart and one pathway,
that they may fear me all the days,
for good to them and to their sons after them.
40) I will cut an everlasting covenant with them.
I will not turn away from them, to do good them.
I will put my fear in their heart that they will not depart from me.
41) I will rejoice over them, to do good to them.
I will truly plant them in this land with all my heart and with all my soul.
42) For YHUH says,
As I have brought all that great evil on this people,
so I will bring on them all the good that I spoke to them.

Ezekiel 11
16)...Though I have sent them far off among the nations
and scattered them among the lands,
yet I was to them as a little sanctuary in the lands where they had gone.
17) Therefore say, So says YHUH,
I will gather you from the people and assemble you from out of the lands,
in those where you were scattered;
and I will give to you the land of Israel.
18) And they will remove all its hateful things and all its abominations from it.
19) I will give to them one heart and I will put a new spirit within them,
and I will remove the stony heart out of their flesh and I will give thema heart of flesh.
20) So that they may walk in my statutes and keep my judgments and do them.
And they will be my people and I will be their Elohim.

All these things go together:

The gathering of Israel
The New Covenant
The cleansing
They new heart of oneness and new spirit,
so that they may walk in YHUH's statutes and keep his judgments and do them.

It all goes hand-in-hand.</pre>

Spying

02-22-2001, 05:06 AM

Hi Sandy,

Messiah Yahushua was aware of the whole context. Messiah defined the whole context and his relationship to that context in this manner:
Matt 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (KJV)The Law rules until the whole context is fulfilled. Then, and only then, is it possible that something could pass from the Law. Therefore, until the whole context is fulfilled, the Law of Purification will be in effect. That is why Ezekiel 36 speaks of sprinkling clean water. It is something that YAHWEH HIMSELF must do. WHY?

Do you yourself actually expect to be sprinkled with physical water directly from a physical hand of YAHWEH, Sandy? Or do you allow yourself, when you contemplate the fulfillment of Ezekiel 36, the freedom to begin to think in more symbolic or spiritual terms? I know that the battle that we are fighting revolves around the manner in which the whole context is to be fulfilled. Are we to take all these things in a literal, physical sense? Or can we begin to look at these things in a symbolic or spiritual sense? We should decide which approach we are going to take, and then, be willing to stick to it.

If both Ezekiel 36 and Jeremiah 31 are to be taken literally in a physical sense, then at some point in time a whole lot of people are going to have heart transplants, and at the same time that they are given their new hearts, YAHWEH HIMSELF, must engrave on each new heart a copy of HIS Law. Is that what you believe, Sandy? It that what you are hoping for?

Most people when they hear about new hearts, they know what YAHWEH is really talking about, and so do you. Having that awareness, then the same people including yourself proceed to look at all the promises of being gathered to the LAND as sure proof that YAHWEH is going to physically move all of us again to reside within the physical borders of physical Palestine: The Land of Israel.

That is what we are fighting over right now, Sandy. We are fighting over literal verses spiritual fulfillment. It is your desire to physically go back to the Land of Israel so you are working to bring about that return by supporting Jewish control of that Land. You could better facilitate that return by supporting Muslim control of the Land. Should Jews remain in control of the Land, they are not going to let you return, Sandy. Only Jews have right of return. You are a Gentile, and, as a Gentile, you have no right of return. In order to have any hope of return, you must convert to Judaism. In order to convert to Judaism, you must deny any association whatsoever with Messiah Yahushua. All these are happening in your life because you look at the promises of the Scripture completely in a physical sense.

YAHWEH is a spirit. It all does happen from HIS HAND. I wonder how a spirit sprinkles? I wonder what a spirit sprinkles?

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-22-2001, 11:17 AM

Spying, you will never change my mind. I do not believe the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) are the New Covenant.

I believe the things taking place in Israel in these present times are just further proof that the Greek Scriptures are not the New Covenant.

As to Palestine it is only a small portion of the land promised to the nation of Israel.

The Hebrew Scriptures contain an abundance of symbolism NOT spiritualism.

So just because symbols and allegories are used concerning a new heart and a new spirit, etc., etc., that does not take away from the realness of the land and the Covenant. The Hebrew Scriptures make it very clear that YHUH'S people will possess the land as promised. YHUH is going to gather them out of all the places where he has scattered them and RETURN them to real physical land just as he promised.

Jeremiah 23
3) I will gather my flock out of all the lands where I have driven them, and will AGAIN bring them to their fold.

Jeremiah 24
6) For I will set my eyes on them for good and I will bring them again to this land, and I will build them and not tear down; and I will plant them and will not pluck up.

Jeremiah 29
14) ...And I will turn away your captivity and I will gather you from all the nations and from all the places, there where I have driven you, says YHUH. And I will AGAIN gather you into the place FROM which I exiled you.

Jeremiah 30
3) ...and I will bring them back to the land THAT I GAVE TO THEIR FOREFATHERS AND THEY SHALL POSSESS IT.

Jeremiah 32
37) Behold, I will gather them out of all the lands where I have driven them in my anger...and I will AGAIN bring them to this place and I will make them live in safety.
41) ...and I will truly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul.

Ezekiel 20
34) And I will bring you out from the people and gather you from the lands in which you are scattered.
37) And I will cause you pass to under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the Covenant.

Ezekiel 37
12) Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, my people, and will bring you to the land of Israel.
14) And I will put my spirit in you and you will live. And I will put you on your own land.

Amos 9
15) And I will plant them on their land and they will not be uprooted again from their land which I have given to them, says YHUH.

With whom is the Covenant made and who will possess the land? Of course it is the nation of Israel; YHUH'S people, his special possession. The Covenant and the land of promise is not made with all the people on the earth. The nation of Israel will dwell there and the ruler/messiah whom YHUH will raise up from the line of David will rule and reign.

There is provision for those who wish to dwell among the sons of Israel as indicated here in Ezekel:

Ezekiel 47
21) And you shall divide this land for yourselves by the tribes of Israel.
22) And it will be, you shall make it fall by lot for a possession to yourselves, and to the sojourner who dwells among you, who shall father sons among you. They shall be to you as native-born among the sons of Israel. They shall be allotted a possession among the tribes of Israel.

When Israel is permently planted back in the land and messiah is ruling and reigning, then YHUH'S Torah (instructions) will go forth from Zion in the land of Israel to all nations. As to exactly what that will entail, I do not know.

Micah 4
1) And it shall be in the end of the days, the mountain of the House of YHUH shall be established on the top of the mountains and it shall be lifted up from the hills; and people shall flow on it.
2) And many nations shall come and say, Come, Let us go up to the mountain of YHUH, and to the house of the Elohy of Jacob. And he will teach us his ways and we will walk in his paths. For the Torah shall go forth out of Zion and the word of YHUH from Jerusalem.

Spying

02-23-2001, 07:43 AM

Hi Sandy,

Changing minds (converting minds) is the responsibility of YAHWEH. Eventually, almost all are converted. Messiah said:
Matt 24:30
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (KJV)The clouds are the dust of his feet. As it is written,
Nahum 1:3
3 The YAHWEH is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the YAHWEH hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. (KJV)One thing is certain, Sandy, you and I are dust. As it is written:
Gen 3:19
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (KJV)Man is formed ground:
Gen 2:7
7 And the YAHWEH ELOHIM formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)Your body is the Land that you do inhabit. Right now, you have absolutely no control or ownership of the very ground that you are made of, and yet, you would run to and fro, back and forth, striving to temporarily own and control a piece of ground outside of yourself that you and others will never truly own and control. As it is written:
Ps 44:25-26
25 For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth.
26 Arise for our help, and redeem us for thy mercies' sake. (KJV)Open you eyes! If you have no permanent control over the ground that you presently inhabit, why do you persist to covet a land outside of yourself given to another? Each day almost, someone fights and dies for that land. They have no perception. Why give up the good dust which you have been blessed to inhabit (your body) for the hope of only temporary ownership of land that will be inhabited by others (future generations) after your death? We must strive for permanent ownership, Sandy. This is a fight already fought and won by Messiah Yahushua. He has inherited the Land of His sojourning. Through His resurrection, He possesses all the Land. There is nothing outside of his control. You have no promise of inhabiting any of His land except through repentance, and through repentance you can also inherit the Land of your sojourning which Messiah does now also own, your body.

So, again, Sandy, you have a clear choice: You can hope to physically occupy the Land of Palestine under the control of Jew or Gentile, it makes no difference, until the day you die, until the day that your soul is required of you, and you lose your land and bow down to the dust, or you can hope through Messiah Yahushua to rise above and permanently own and occupy the Land in which you presently reside, your body. Which do you choose?

Have a good Sabbath Daylight, Sandy!

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-23-2001, 04:20 PM

Yes the KJV uses the English word dust in its translation of Genesis 2:7, 3:19 and Nahum 1:3, but if you look at the Hebrew words you will find they are not the same and do not have the same meaning.

'abaq is the Hebrew word translated as dust in Nahum 1:3. It is # 80 in Strong's concordance, which says it means:

light particles (as volatile).

'aphar is the Hebrew word translated dust in Genesis 2:7 and 3:19. It is # 6083 in Strong's Concordance, which says it means:

dust (as powdered or gray); hence clay, earth, mud.

The one has nothing to do with the other.

Your theory concerning our body is a perversion as far as I am concerned.

You have taken Psalm 44:25-26 out of its context to further your theory. And also by your theory you seek to make null and void the word of YHUH concerning the promises made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel).

Spying

02-25-2001, 11:01 AM

Hi Sandy,

When did I say that "abaq" and "aphar" were the same word? What are you questioning here, Sandy? Are you questioning whether clouds are made of dust particles?

Here is the full Strong's definition for "abaq" which is the modern day Hebrew word that is used for the "dust" on funiture etc.:
80 'abaq (aw-bawk');

from root of 79; light particles (as volatile):

KJV-- (small) dust, powder.Here is the full definition for "aphar":
6083 `aphar (aw-fawr');

from 6080; dust (as powdered or gray); hence, clay, earth, mud:

KJV-- ashes, dust, earth, ground, morter, powder, rubbish.
***. `Aphrah. See 1036.How does YAHWEH teach?:
Isa 28:9-11
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. (KJV)To me the use of "abaq" and "aphar" right here is nothing more than here a little, and there a little. To you, my use is a contradiction. You are betraying your age, Sandy! Consider how Isaiah uses "abaq":
Isa 5:24-26
24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the YAHWEH of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
25 Therefore is the anger of the YAHWEH kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
26 And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly: (KJV)Do you see no relationship between the above verses and Messiah's statement?:
Matt 24:30-31
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (KJV)Consider this statement of Isaiah:
Isa 29:4-6
4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust (aphar), and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust (aphar).
5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust (abaq), and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.
6 Thou shalt be visited of the YAHWEH of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire. (KJV)I see the Cross of Messiah Yahushua in the above statement. There is a great secret in the word, "dust":
Num 19:17
17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes (aphar) of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel: (KJV)For our cleansing, Sandy.

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-25-2001, 02:17 PM

You wrote:
There is a great secret in the word, "dust":
You seem to make everything out as a secret or a mystery or spiritual. Therefore because I see things different from you, you consider me immature in my understanding. Your opinion is not what counts. What counts is our standing before the MOST HIGH.

You wrote:
Num 19:17
17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the "ashes" (aphar) of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel: (KJV)
So now it is just running water and not living water?

Spying

02-26-2001, 09:01 AM

Hi Sandy,

My considerations are my considerations. They are not arbitrary. They are based upon considering your reactions and your arguments. If I am wrong in my considerations, then I owe you an apology. It is possible that I am wrong, but I hope for your sake that I am not. If I am wrong, then the path that you are following is exceedingly deliberate and devious and not childlike.

Yes, with respect to the mysteries of ELOHIM I am also very childlike. I am always reaching out in wonderment. Most of the time, I feel like a toddler set free in a candy store, and I do admit to a problem of focus. There are so many good things to examine. There are a great many "here" and "there" items.

Your position before YAHWEH ELOHIM is one of cleanness despite your arguments to the contrary (Your denial of the New Covenant). Through the suffering of Messiah Yahushua, you have been made clean, and I will endeavor to show you how; eventhough, much of this cleansing process remains a mystery to me.

You have already seen that the burning of the Red Heifer reduces the Heifer to ashes. These ashes are called "dust" in Numbers 19:17. In actual practice, the Jews pulverized the ashes to make them "dust" before the ashes were deposited in a clean place. I have worked with concrete most of my life. It is a wonderful product. When I consider the "dust" of the Red Heifer, I can't help but think of cement and the process by which cement is manufactured. Both the "dust" of the Red Heifer and cement are refined products that have endured extreme temperatures. They both begin as clay. Both are burned while other ingredients are added in the refining process. With both, in the end, you have a product that is capable of some amazing things. Consider the "dust" of the Heifer. It has been rendered totally dry. It has no moisture. If you touch it in any fashion, it makes you unclean. However, if one is sprinkled with this dust combined with water, the dust has the power to cleanse. The Jews could never understand how the same product could both cleanse and defile. There seems to be no logic that can be applied to understanding this "dust" in a physical sense.

The ultimate purifier is fire. Fire does cleanse. Things that burn do go through a transformation. What begins as a Heifer, ends as dust. Now, if the Tzaddikim are right about this Heifer, namely, that the Messiah Yahushua is the Red Heifer, and that the suffering and death of Messiah is synonymous with the burning of the Heifer, what possible benefit could this have for any of us if all water (life) is removed from Messiah who himself was clean in the first place (a Heifer without spot or blemish)? How could his death cleanse anyone else? Now, we are forced to answer that question because YAHWEH does consider all mankind as being cleansed through the death of Messiah (Acts 10:28). The Christian world teaches that this cleansing is substitutional. They believe that Messiah was cleansed (punished and purged of life) in our stead so that YAHWEH ELOHIM could apply this cleansing to each of us in order to declare us clean. In other words, YAHWEH must, in some manner, be using Messiah's death as a filter or screen with which to cover mankind so that YAHWEH does not see our uncleanness. So, according to Christianity, the transformation in the burning of the Heifer only takes place in the body of Messiah who went from life to death and in the mind of YAHWEH who now, for the sake of Messiah, looks upon a defiled and unclean world as being clean. In other words, YAHWEH is playing mind games with HIMSELF. The Tzaddikim, in no uncertain terms, deny all such teaching.

If you really begin to look at the process of purification, Sandy, you will notice a lot of instruction concerning what YAHWEH requires. YAHWEH requires that three ingredients be added to the burning of the Heifer: Cedarwood, scarlet, and hyssop. Now, I know full well that you don't like to engage in this sort of thing, but do you think that these three ingredients might be important in understanding the exact nature of the refined "dust" that the Law commands must later be used to separate Israel from their sin and the defilement of death? The Law does also make requirements concerning the killing, the burning, the gathering of the Ashes, the depositing of the Ashes, the hydration of the Ashes, and the sprinkling of the Ashes. Do you think that these things may be important in understanding how the same Ashes can both cleanse and defile? Do you think that these things may be important in understanding how YAHWEH does now look upon the world as actually being clean?

Sincerely, Spying

Sandy

02-26-2001, 11:43 AM

I definitely believe in the cleansing, but I do not believe that the Greek Scriptures represent that cleansing. There are a number of reasons why I feel this way. I will point out only a few.

I find the Greek Scriptures in opposition to the Hebrew Scriptures. I feel it is a book of plagiarism.
I feel there is a very good possibility that Iesous/Jesus/Yeshua was married to Mary Magdalene and had children.
I feel that it is highly possible that Iesous did not die on the stake, but was removed before he died.

But the main and most important reason is that the Christos of the Greek Scriptures does not fulfill the roll of YHUH'S messiah as set forth in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Spying

02-26-2001, 12:12 PM

Hi Bratu,

Did you happen to notice how Nahum states that YAHWEH controls the storm in this scripture?:
Nahum 1:3
3 The YAHWEH is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the YAHWEH hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. (KJV)I consider the suffering and death of Messiah Yahushua to be the Eye of the Storm:
Mark 15:33
33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. (KJV)Who was in control of this storm that is the center of the whirlwind, YAHWEH or Set?

Sincerely, Spying

Bratu McCaskey

02-27-2001, 11:55 AM

Em Hotep

I haven't posted for a few days and was pleased to see that i wasn't completely forgotten in the thread which i help create. Funny how these things work. But by now as you can imagine i am used to it. Everywhere i go and everything i say or post, just like this spawns something. It creates turmoil or descrepency.

Well Spying here is what i think.
I rather liked the passage you picked. In that particular story i feel it was probably Yaweh who was controlling the storm. I in reality feel that Set or the abstract which i call Set, controls the storm. Since the dawn of man the storm has been the wrath of the Gods.
For instance in Ancient Sumerian Enlil was the God of the storm as well. I see much likeness between Him and Set. Maybe too much. The point being that in Sumeria Enlil was the storm which was power in action. This was directly opposed to Anu or An who was power in word. Enlil was the wrath Anu was the decree.

The storm has been and always will be the favored wrath of the Gods. Just like zeus who had his thunderbolts, Set His storm clouds, Enlil His. As to which of these i feel is more correct i think i have been over. I thank you for that passage though cause it will be added to the collection of the wrath of the Gods which i am going to compile. It will be all the instances which the thunderstorm is used as the wrath of the Gods.

Bratu

Spying

03-02-2001, 07:15 AM

Hi Bratu,

Thank you for your reply. It is the nature of forums that threads can also take on a life of their own which neglects the originators. I posted to you to let you know that I was thinking of you and to let you know that I myself was still engaged in the original purpose of this thread, that is, to get at, as best we can, the Eye of the Storm. For the most part, I agree with you that storms represent the wrath of the Elohim. Personally, I have always been very afraid of storms, but I must admit to a love/hate relationship to storms. I am fascinated by them, and I have great curiosity concerning them. If I could choose an occupation all over again, I think I would be a storm chaser. The perfect storm to me is the Hurricane; although, when I see a huge low pressure center circling across the upper Midwest in the winter, pulling up moist hot air from the south and cold air from the north to create a gigantic snow storm, that is a close second. They are both huge whirlwinds. I don't know if the whirlwind spoken of by Nahum refers to either. Nahum may be specifically speaking of the tornado.

The suffering and death of Messiah Yahushua is to me the Mother of all whirlwinds and storms, and the Eye of that Storm is the Cross. There is no greater clash in my mind of love and hate, righteousness and sin, than at the Cross. The Cross is total world war that engages all of mankind and all the Elohim, and there is only one winner, and that winner is Messiah.

Why do the Elohim have wrath against men and against each other? Has Set ever been wrathful against you to the point that he would seek your destruction through a storm? Do the Elohim use storms to teach men lessons? If so, why? Do the Elohim have their own storms?

Do you, yourself, see a physical storm as representative of a spiritual process? The lower the pressure the higher the clouds rise, and the eye is a window to heaven. There is no balance in a storm or is there? Can you describe for me a spiritual storm that takes place in time and encompasses the lives of all men like I am working to do for you with the Cross? Have you run across anything like that in your studies?

Have a great day, Bratu!

Sincerely, Spying

Bratu McCaskey

03-02-2001, 11:31 AM

Hails Spying

Very true indeed threads have a tendency to develop a life of their own. I had a discussion on another board about something similar to that and the final decision was that i am the thread killer hehe. I was amused but just a joke the same.

When i was younger i feared the storm much like you. However since then a few things have happened to me and i haven't ever been as afraid since. In fact very little makes me feel as alive as a storm. When i was 5 i saw the inside of a funnel cloud of a tornado. It hit my house in North Carolina and i was outside watching in my own little world. Later on the fixation didn't go away but kept right on coming. Last year i was in chicago during the summer i drove up there to visit a friend. We were at the field museum viewing the Egpytian antiquities, which saddened me greatly, and when i felt the saddness a huge lake storm came up. I have no idea if the two are related but that is another matter. So to feel better i walked across the vast parking lot up to my knees in water, in the rain, with lightning hitting all around pretty much. The funny thing is that never once did i feel as though i was in danger. Who knows why. A few years before that i was at a house in rural Ga that a friend of mine owned and i was standing at a window watching a storm and all of the sudden my hair stood on end and the tree brach that was in the open window was hit by lightning. It was literally a few inches from my face. I was seered by the heat and it smelled terrible but i was alive.
To me the greatest storm i was ever in was a thunder snow storm. It was night fall i was standing out side watching the streak lightning during the darkness and it would eluminate the snow and its vortex. It was amazing.

Set has never been wrathful to me. If he were i would have died that day in Chicago or in North Carolina no doubt in my mind. The Gods are wrathful to men because men are ignorant and pointless in many instances. They are wrathful to each other because they are Gods they don't have to get along. Lessons taught by a storm? I think so yes but not lessons of words or of thought but of a different sort. Perhaps significance.

Yes a storm is definetly a spiritual process. A storm comes and cleanses and destroys the old to make way for the new. It is balanced, it is the balace of creation versus destruction. Life is the storm of all men. The cross to me is more so just a symbol of a religion and an idea. The acquisition of knowledge is a storm. Because it challenges the old to with stand the onslaught or fall in the wake. If it falls in the wake then it makes way for the new. If it does not fall then it is stronger than before. All sorts of things

bratu

DeAnna

03-02-2001, 12:40 PM

Dear Sandy,

I read what you posted on Ezekiel, and this is what came into my mind. These thoughts are in ( ) as you did (Israel) or they are separate from the scripture. Just thought I would share.
Shalom,

Ezekiel 36:23-28

23) ...And the nations will know that I am YHUH when I am made holy,
through you (Israel), in their eyes.
24) For I will take you from the nations and gather you out of all the lands
and bring you into your land. (heart and mind)
25) Then I will sprinkle clean waters on you and you
will be clean,

(Which he does through life, through every revelation he gives us of himself, through every lesson, through every hardship, joy, truth... and His "sprinkling" cleanses us. It's not gonna be like "magic". Yah does not work that way. It will be by His Spirit, and his spirits continuous growth 'in us" or ... our land).

and I will cleanse you from all your defilement and from all your idols.

This is not gonna happen in "a day", unless you call a "day" a thousand years. There is a transformation like a caterpillar to the butterfly, but there is still a process. And what looks "dead" on the outside (flesh) could be working miracles on the inside, and one day that being is gonna break out of that dead shell and be something glorious. I believe that is why Yahshua said; "I judge not by the flesh". Cause when we look at the flesh, there is ALWAYS something we can find to point at... but little do we know if the very thing we point at is not the very thing that is causing that person to change on the inside.

26) And I will also give you a new heart and I will put a new spirit within you.
And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh
and I will give to you a heart of flesh.

And this he does! Every day! If we are "turning to him"... He is doing this! How do we know if we are "Turning to him"? Well,... Is he on your mind all the time? Do you compare everything to him? When we are "in love" in the flesh we "think about them all the time". We wonder what they think about us.

27) And I will put my spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and you will keep my judgments and do them.

This is not a 'Poof' thing, and the whole world sees alike. Because someone is of "like mind" does not mean, they see alike. I am a thief. I lived as a thief and a liar. One day I was convinced that if I truly believed Yah would "cleanse me"... and "cause me" to walk in his statutes, then he would! And I've nothing to worry about. And I did believe this. And I stood on this, in the face of many people, many accusers, many finger pointers that said, DeAnna how dare you quote the bible when I know you lie and steal. And I said, but I won't always! He will "change" me, and "cause" me to walk in his statutes and judgments! And He will give me a "new" heart. I tell you true, I did not wake up one day and say; "I will never steal again". And then I didn't. No! It did not happen that way. I was about to take something and I heard a voice that said; "Is this taking you one step closer to where you want to be? or one step away? " And immediately I no longer "wanted" the thing. I did not desire to have it. I did not "decide" to no longer desire it, I just didn't desire it. It was not of "me". It was Him, changing my heart! I cannot point my finger at another and say "you theif". I am a thief. But Yah in me is not. "Let all men be liars and Yah be true!" It is not that the sin is no longer in me to do, but my faith in him brought it into "remission".

28) And you will dwell in the land that I gave to
your forefathers. And you will be my people and I will be your Elohim.

The land He gave unto our forefathers was the land of Canaan. "Low land"; the same word in hebrew for "Canaan" is also a primitive root word meaning "humble", "humility".

H3667 ![;n:K. K@na`an {ken-ah'-an} ¤ from 03665; TWOT - 1002,1002b; ¤ AV -
Canaan 89, merchant 3, traffick 1, traffickers 1; 94 ¤ Canaan = "lowland" n pr m 1)
the 4th son of Ham and the progenitor of the Phoenicians and of the various
nations who peopled the seacoast of Palestine n pr loc 2) the land west of the
Jordan peopled by the descendants of Canaan and subsequently conquered by
the Israelites under Joshua n m 3) merchant, trader

H3665 [n:K' kana` {kaw-nah'} ¤ a primitive root; TWOT - 1001; v ¤ AV - humble 18,
subdue 11, bring low 2, bring down 3, subjection 1, misc 1; 36 ¤ 1) to be humble,
be humbled, be subdued, be brought down, be low, be under, be brought into
subjection 1a) (Niphal) 1a1) to humble oneself 1a2) to be humbled, be subdued
1b) (Hiphil) 1b1) to humble 1b2) to subdue

We truly do inherit this land. We must. For we cannot enter the kingdom without it. And the kingdom is not the land. The kingdom that we are to inherit was set up before the foundation of the world.

The land that he gathers us out of is Egypt among others. Egypt means;

H4714 ~yIr;c.mi Mitsrayim {mits-rah'-yim} ¤ dual of 04693;
Egypt = "land of the Copts" 1) a country at the northeastern section of Africa, adjacent to
Palestine, and through which the Nile flows adj Egyptians = "double straits"
2) the inhabitants or natives of Egypt

H4693 rAcm' matsowr {maw-tsore'} ¤ the same as 04692 in the sense of a
limit; ¤ 1) "Matsor", a name for Egypt 2) (TWOT) siege, entrenchment

H4692 rAcm' matsowr {maw-tsore'} ¤ from 06696; ¤ 1) siege-enclosure,
siege, entrenchment, siege works 1a) siege 1b) enclosure, siege-works, rampart

H6696 rWc tsuwr {tsoor} ¤ a primitive root; ¤ 1) to bind, besiege, confine,
cramp 1a) (Qal) 1a1) to confine, secure 1a2) to shut in, beseige 1a3) to shut up,
enclose 2) (Qal) to show hostility to, be an adversary, treat as foe 3) (Qal) to
form, fashion, delineate

He will deliver us (Israel) from these things. And from being and doing these things. If we turn to Him and ask Him to do so.

H3478 laer'f.yI Yisra'el {yis-raw-ale'} ¤ from 08280 and 0410 ¤
Israel = "God prevails"
1) the second name for Jacob given to him by God after his wrestling with the
angel at Peniel 2) the name of the descendants and the nation of the
descendants of Jacob 2a) the name of the nation until the death of Solomon and
the split 2b) the name used and given to the northern kingdom consisting of the
10 tribes under Jeroboam; the southern kingdom was known as Judah 2c) the
name of the nation after the return from exile

H8280 hr'f' sarah {saw-raw'} ¤ a primitive root; ¤
1) contend, have power, contend with, persist, exert oneself, persevere

Yes... all of Israel shall be saved. Not the flesh Israel. But all of the israelites that
have come to truly believe that Yah does indeed reign and rule their lives, their
hearts, their minds. Yea... their very soul. And they shall be delivered from Egypt,
oppression, being a slave unto sin. And shall be given a new heart. And a new
spirit. For Yah does indeed write His laws on our hearts. It may not be all at the
same time. But it happens to all who are turning to him, and believes that He
prevails. And little by little, we are truly cleansed. By His hand. By His spirit

Love,
D'

Sandy

03-02-2001, 09:17 PM

Thank you for your thoughts DeAnna, but I do not believe in spiritual Israel.

It is natural Israel that was chosen as a special possession or treasure from out of all the other people.

It is natural Israel that was given the TEN WORDS (Ten Commandments).

It is natural Israel that was given the judgments, statutes and ordinances.

It is natural Israel that was given the TORAH.

It is with natural Israel that YHUH made his covenant.

It is natural Israel that was given the promise to possess or inherit the land.

It is natural Israel that was commanded regarding the BLESSINGS and the CURSES.

It is natural Israel that will be GATHERED AGAIN and RETURNED TO THE LAND OF ISRAEL.

It is with natural Israel that YHUH will make a New Covenant by writing it on their hearts.

It is natural Israel that will be given a new heart and a new spirit.

Genesis 17:8
And I will give to you (Abraham) and to your seed (natural Israel) after you the land of your sojourning, all the land of Kanaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their (natural Israel) Elohim.

Abraham and his wife Sarah, Isaac and his wives Rebekah and Leah, and Jacob were all buried in the land of Kanaan (Genesis 49:29-33, 50:12-13).

Genesis 48:3-4
3) And Jacob said to Joseph, El Shaddi appeared to me in Luz in the land of Kanaan and blessed me,
4) And he said to me, Behold, I will make you fruitful and will mutiply you, and will make you a multitude of people. And I will give this land (the land of Kanaan) to your seed (natural Israel) after you as an everlasting possession.

Jeremiah 23
3) I will gather my flock (natural Israel) out of all the lands where I have driven them (natural Israel), and will AGAIN bring them (natural Israel) to their (natural Israel) fold.

Jeremiah 24
6) For I will set my eyes on them (natural Israel) for good and I will bring them (natural Israel) AGAIN to this land, and I will build them (natural Israel) and not tear down; and I will plant them (natural Israel) and will not pluck up.

Jeremiah 29
14) ...And I will turn away your (natural Israel's) captivity and I will gather you (natural Israel) from all the nations and from all the places, there where I have driven you (natural Israel), says YHUH. And I will AGAIN gather you (natural Israel) to the place FROM which I exiled you (natural Israel).

Jeremiah 30
3) ...and I will bring them (natural Israel) BACK to the land THAT I GAVE TO THEIR (natural Israel's) FATHERS AND THEY SHALL POSSESS IT.

Ezekiel 47
21) And you (natural Israel) shall divide this land for yourselves (natural Israel) by the tribes of Israel (natural Israel).
22) And it will be, you (natural Israel) shall make it fall by lot for a possession to yourselves (natural Israel), and to the sojourner who dwells among you (natural Israel), who shall father sons among you (natural Israel). They shall be to you (natural Israel) as native-born among the sons of Israel (natural Israel). They shall be allotted a possession among the tribes of Israel (natural Israel).

YHUH says this to natural Israel:

Deuteronomy 30
1) And it shall be when all these things have come on you (natural Israel), the blessing and the curse which I have set before you (natural Israel); and among all the nations where YHUH shall banish you (natural Israel), you (natural Israel) shall bring back to your (natural Israel's) heart these things;
2) And shall turn back to YHUH and listen to his voice, according to all that I command you (natural Israel) today, you (natural Israel) and your children (natural Israel's) with all your (natural Israel) heart and with all your (natural Israel) soul;
3) then YHUH will turn your (natural Israel) captivity and he will have pity on you (natural Israel), and will return and gather you (natural Israel) from all the nations where YHUH has scattered you (natural Israel).
5) And YHUH shall bring you (natural Israel) into the land which your fathers have possessed and you shall possess it; and he shall multipy you above your fathers.
The following tells what will be done to the enemies of natural Israel (which includes those who seek to dispossess them):
7) And YHUH will put all these curses on your (natural Israel's) enemies, and on those that hate you (natural Israel), who have persecuted you (natural Israel).

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

03-05-2001, 09:11 AM

Selamta to all,

I would like to jump into the last two posts by Spying and Bratu. I loved Bratu's last post.
<hr>
Spying asked:
Do you, yourself, see a physical storm as representative of a spiritual process? The lower the pressure the higher the clouds rise, and the eye is a window to heaven. There is no balance in a storm or is there? Can you describe for me a spiritual storm that takes place in time and encompasses the lives of all men like I am working to do for you with the Cross? Have you run across anything like that in your studies?
<hr>

What a brilliant set of questions Spying. I hope you will oblidge me a moment of your time.


Do you, yourself, see a physical storm as representative of a spiritual process? The lower the pressure the higher the clouds rise, and the eye is a window to heaven.

These are ancient rituals and understandings that have existed for who knows how long. You are describing an inner experience that all seekers experience. Everything is always a reflection of the Ancient of Days who gives salvation to every generation, no matter how we view it or put words to it to describe it. For inner Kingdom awareness is beyond Words. The Inner Temple experience must be lived to know. One can point to the WAY, but the initiate must enter in. What I like about what Bratu is saying, is that the storm is essential in the process. Without destruction, there would be no redemption. The Funnel of the storm is the most interesting of storm symbols. It is the spiral which depicts all things in Creation and also is the serpent lifted up on a pole in the wilderness. The symbolism is steeped with meaning, but lets stay with the funnel. A tornado can either destroy or lift up, depending if you are in the core of it or the outer parts. This will be much like the inner kingdom dweller. Being in the world destroys, being in the world but not of it, is the safe zone. If I am at the center of the Storm, I am safe. If I am in the tulmet, I we be destroyed. But can I move through this world without be a part of the Storm's destructive forces. Can I reside at the eye of the storm?

Isaiah 26: 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:

Any Truth can be seen in Creation. The cross is merely man and man lifted up to his true self: Sons and Daughters of God. The cross has been an initiation ritual from long before Golgotha, a symbolization of man, the Temple, The Image. The three day initiation ritual existed in Egypt, which symbolized the death to self and the rise to the consciousness of the gods. (ie. the mind of Christ and the symbolism of Death, Burial and Resurrection) The initiate (Enochian) was laid on a cross cut slab for three days, until the Consciousness of the Most High rose up within him. However, The Pole that Y'shua was lifted up on also represents that in the Image of the Serpent lifted up in the Wilderness, which was the rod of Isis. The death, burial and resurrection ritual, and the cross, predates Golgotha. As well of the eye of the storm.

Radical Bridge Building Luvs from Ishshah

Spying

03-06-2001, 06:53 AM

Hi Ishshah,

"Brilliant". When you put it that way, I can't help but oblige! Praise does do wonders. I am beaming from ear to ear. Even so, let me assure you that any brilliance which I may possess is not my own. I am striving to make it my own, but all brilliance belongs to YAHWEH ELOHIM. Give thanks to HIM that men and women are able to reflect HIS light.

I agree with you, Ishshah, that the Cross did not begin at Golgotha. Surely, the Cross is an ancient pathway to death, burial, and resurrection. Messiah said:
Matt 11:25-27
25 At that time Yahushua answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Adonai of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (KJV)

John 5:19-20
19 Then answered Yahushua and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. (KJV)According to these words of Messiah, this pathway is not universal knowledge. It is hidden, and it is only revealed to Messiah and by Messiah. Men in other times and eras have been show bits and pieces. Some like Moses have seen quite a lot. Others have experienced quite a lot, but Messiah put it all together. He both saw and did.

This is why Messiah is the Savior of mankind. This is why Messiah is the light of the world. This is why Messiah is the Son of YAHWEH because of his seeing and doing. If one sees all the things of YAHWEH, and if one exactly does all the things of YAHWEH, who and what are they? In my book, the one who sees and does, is YAHWEH HIMSELF. Such a seer and doer is the exact image of YAHWEH, a son so to speak. We now have opportunity through Messiah to also be sons (exact images) of YAHWEH through the seeing and the doing revealed to us by Messiah. We have opportunity to follow in his footsteps, that is, if we have seen the pathway.

I have been searching into and seeking to understand the nature of the Cross for years, but I have only recently (since I met Bratu) sought to explain the Cross in terms of a violent storm. In the past, my thinking either revolved around nuclear fission and fusion or around magnetism as a model for the Cross, but the more I do now contemplate the whirlwind and the storm, the better they appear to me to reflect the nature of the Cross. The more I contemplate the symbol (the storm), the better it seems to fit. What creates the whirlwind? Messiah's Cross is not the only cross at the Crucifixion. There are two others.

In order for the whirlwind to begin, it may be that there exists a relationship and interaction between the crosses? Do the other crosses in some fashion revolve around Messiah's? Do all the crosses turn as they revolve? What creates the revolving and turning in order that the whirlwind may form?

Sincerely, Spying

DeAnna

03-07-2001, 01:14 PM

Shalom Bratu,

I just had to "but in". Hope thats okay.

As you know, I believe there is only one creator. Regardless of what one calls him. I found it interesting that in scriptures... in all scriptures. The people went for a while seeking the "God with no name". The jews were known for their "god with no name" before Moses rose up. In Egyptian, "I think" it was Osiris that tricked Ra into giving her his name. In all scriptures, there is power in "his name". There are many ancient "mighty ones". Some say; Ammon - Ra (which are two different gods actually, but both are served equally, not unlike "god and jesus". There was Ahura (god) and ormonze (like unto abraham; "blessed seed") and Asha (the promise) Whatever that name may be. If you "come in His name" so to speak, you dwell in safety. When we come in someone elses name... we come/walk in their authority. We are there representing their authority... not our own.

You said;

> "Set has never been wrathful to me. If he were i would have died that day in Chicago or in North Carolina no doubt in my mind. " <

In scripture. Mountains and hills represent principalities and powers. Whether it be The Holy power of Yah sent out from the mount, or principalities of darkness. If it says "Holy mountain" you can pretty much count on it being the ulitmate power. The power of Yah. In Jerimiah Yahs prensence "melts the hills and the mountains before him". These are principalities of darkness or the powers of lies that melt in the presense of truth.
When Yah "makes desolate the land"... it is us he makes desolate through the storms. And all is taken away. And we feel like "something is against us" when the flesh cries out. But this desolation brings about seeking. And seeking brings about awareness. So even in Yahs desolation, it is still his goodness toward men. It is for our own good that we go through the storms (emotional) and through the baptism of fire (purging) and through the wind (being taken away by the spirit and unto inner understandings)

"Oh that men would praise Yah for his goodness, and for his wonderful works to the children of men!". (psalm; 107:8, 15, 21 and 31)

I say this to you because you basically said you have no fear in the face of the storm. And I feel exactly the same way. I thought that was kool. (smile)

"yea though I walk through the valley of shadow and death, I shall fear no evil..."

you say; > "The Gods are wrathful to men because men are ignorant and pointless in many instances. " <

I say this is the god up above the moon son and stars that my mother (church) taught me about. But this is not the one that I have come to know that dwells within me. The Yah I have come to know has purpose and reason, and true mercy and compassion in his storms upon men. No parent loves their child and does not teach them. I do not say dicipline. Because of the english connotation of the word. I say teach.

I just recently found out that Jerulsalem does not mean "city of peace", but "teaching of peace". So anyone reading this that read an older post of mine, I have been shown otherwise. sorry. I should probably go back and change that old post for future readers... anyway...

"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Psalm 51:5

And yet; "I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well."
Psalm 139:14

If we are not guilty and in bondage of something. We "could not" know what it's like to be free from it. And that is what Yah is all about. Freedom. Liberty.

" Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." Isaiah 43:7

"blessed is he who waits upon Yah".

You say; > "They are wrathful to each other because they are Gods they don't have to get along." <

Or maybe what we know as "gods" are angels, or martyers or what have you, but being the creation of an ultimate creator... they would be learning as well. And therefore, being taught.

"I will put my spirit within you..."
"Not by might, not by power, but by my spirit, saith Yah."

Once while driving in my car I said to Yah; "Yah, make me an honest person". Then I said, "why aren't I perfect yet? I mean... as much as you have shown me, and as much as we talk, and as much as I read and study... I should be perfect by now... etc."
He put this "thought" litterally into my head;

"Sarah was 90 before she gave birth"

Then it dawned on me that all the key woman in the bible were barren until Yah opened their womb. (we are the bride that is to marry the word or truth; that we may become one and have a union, a common soul.)

And then the scripture " shall I bring to the birth and not give strength to bring forth?"
came into my mind.

And rev. about the woman being clothed in the son (Yahs word) and "paining to be delivered." And as soon as she brought forth seed the advesary was right there to devour her child when it was born. But Yah carried her.

Well... I just cried. And I had renewed hope that yes... Yah would bring His word forth in me. And His counsel shall stand. And He will perform it, and do it. just like he says he will.

Indeed... "blessed are they who wait upon Yah".

Dear Bratu... may our creator not forsake the works of his own hands. For we are fearfully and wonderfully made!

Love,
D'

Ishsha, Your post was wonderful. I copied and filed it!
Praise Yah! And I see spying received all that as well. He was all over that! It is so wonderful to know the spirit!

"I come not by observation, but by revelation"

HalelluYah!

Love D'

Spying

03-10-2001, 07:16 AM

Hi Bratu,

I would like for you to consider the words of Paul who said:
Rom 4:15
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. (KJV)It is quite possible that the Law of Moses itself brings about the storm. If that should be the case, then the Law is a storm machine. How could that be?

Consider eating pork. YAHWEH has said, don't eat it:
Lev 11:7-8
7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you.
8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you. (KJV)Now, I know that you have already made a judgment concerning this prohibition. YAHWEH obviously knew that the flesh of swine contained hidden dangers, didn't HE? Since we now know all about those hidden dangers, it is now perfectly alright to eat swine's flesh, am I not right? And besides all that, YAHWEH has no authority over me since Set is my El. This is the reasoning that allows you to eat pork if you desire it, right?

Have you ever been drunk, Bratu? The Law describes your type of reasoning concerning your transgression as drunkenness (I am not getting on your case here. I am merely working to describe events which can bring about or start a huge spiritual storm):
Deut 29:19
19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst: (KJV)"Thirst" here is the inability, no matter the reason, to accomplish what YAHWEH commands. "Drunkenness" is the expressed belief that one can transgress the Law of YAH and get away with it, kinda like we all have done at one time or another. This, however, it what YAH has to say about our peace:
Deut 29:20
20 The YAHWEH will not spare him, but then the anger of the YAHWEH and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the YAHWEH shall blot out his name from under heaven. (KJV)According to these words, YAHWEH is wrathful with you, Bratu.

Now, I know that it may appear to you as if YAHWEH is indeed blowing smoke when HE informs us that there are dire consequences for all such who transgress HIS Law. I mean when has YAHWEH ever approached you concerning your disobedience? When have the curses of the Law ever been placed upon you? You still have a name under heaven, right? Under the circumstances, you feel safe, don't you, but are you really safe?

Consider these basic elements of the storm: Sin=cold Righteousness=hotMessiah said:
Matt 24:12
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (KJV)"Love is the fulfillment of the Law". (Romans 13:10, 1 John 5:3) Love can be hot. If righteousness is being performed, there is heat. "Sin is the transgression of the Law." (1 John 3:4) If sin abounds, there is cold. Heat rises. Cold hugs the ground. What happens when cold is lifted up and cold collides with the hot? We have the beginnings of a storm, don't we?

Should you be moved to consider this storm, do you think that it is possible that both sin and righteousness were brought together to collide at the Cross of Messiah Yahushua?

Sincerely, Spying

Bratu McCaskey

03-10-2001, 12:51 PM

Hails

Hello Deanna to be completely honest i don't know that i really have much response to what you posted. Must be tired or something don't really see much of a discrepency or anything. Who knows, well on the next post.

Hello Spying
Alright here we from top to bottom. The law of Moses brings about the storm? This is curious because i think that the law of Moses or better put the morals of Moses have only a little to do with a spiritual storm. That is more of an ethics storm. What do i think is right and wrong based on what is best for people over all.

Yes i have made a judgement concerning that prohibition. Did Yahweh know and convey this knowledge? Highly doubtful, i would say and put pretty good stock in saying that more than likely people ate it, it was under cooked, and people got really sick. That is pretty much what i am saying that Yahweh can stay on his side of the fence and i will stay on mine with what i have found to be true. The reasoning that allows me to eat pork is simply that i don't care. That in specific is something i consider ridiculous. If you don't want to eat meat or pork for health reasons like echoli or whatever that is fine. But to pass judgement and say that is unclean and all who eat it are unclean holds no weight with me.

No i have never been drunk. I don't drink, nor do drugs. I do not do these things because i wish to keep a clear head. I don't like my sight to be clouded by those things when i know i don't need them nor enjoy them either. I didn't think you were on my case :). If i ever think you are on my case you will know, i am not very bashful when it comes to that sort of thing.
I don't worry about Yah's laws or whether he is wrathful to me. It makes no difference to me. I am going to do what i am going to do reguardless, because i don't feel what i am doing is wrong. If i did feel it was wrong i would quit. You thank your father when some one praises you, why? If i were to give you a gift like a book what good is that gift if You don't use it? It does you no good. Being thankful for what you have is one thing, but how you use what you have is your own choice. He might have given you intelligence but you used it not him. Things like that i will never understand. I am thankful to my Father for the strength He gives me, and often times it is a realization that i had it in me the whole time. I am thankful because i am alive and i like being alive, because that can be taken away at any moment. I follow my heart and my instinct because that is pure, because it is nature. And nature is pure. Only is it corrupted when i don't have an unrestrained heart. I do wrong not because of something that Adam or Eve did, but because my judgement isn't perfect and not all things apply to instincts, and many times a decision is made rashly before the weight of the consequences are thought through.

Am i safe? No Yah has never come to me with His wrath or His anger. As to a name under heaven, no i don't have one. Not in your heaven.

Bratu

Bratu McCaskey

03-16-2001, 08:12 AM

Well,
Seeing as how this thread has lain dormant for 6 days now i am seeing it as coming to an end? Thanks for the conversation i suppose i will be on my way to wandering some more. "Not all who wander are lost"-Tolkien. If this is not so then post and tell me but if i don't recieve a response then i will assume it to be. So good luck to all and good travels. Follow your heart and enjoy what you are given.

Set's Blessing
Bratu

Spying

03-17-2001, 07:51 AM

Hi Bratu,

Six days! You have waited long. Behold, the Seventh Day, and there is rest from our worldly labors and more time to sprinkle. Please forgive again my neglect. I want you to know that this thread is always on my mind.

You also know that I had hoped that Messiah Yahushua has chosen you in himself to also be a sprinkler (one who asperses, :) ). The sprinklers are children. The Jews would carry them on doors lest they be made or rendered unclean by walking on a grave. This is what Barnabas had to say about them:
Barnabas 8:3-4
3. Those who sprinkle are children, they are those who preach to us forgiveness of sins and purification of the heart, to whom he entrusted the authority to proclaim the gospel. 
3b. There are twelve (of the latter), for a witness to the tribes, since there are twelve tribes of Israel. 
4. But why are there (only) three children who sprinkle? This is for a witness to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, because they are great before ELOHIM. (The Apostolic Fathers, the Epistle of Barnabas, page 281-282)Now, all who are pure of heart and dwell in Messiah Yahushua have the authority through his good spirit to sprinkle the nations. As it is written:
Isa 52:15
15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider. (KJV)It is the spirit of Messiah Yahushua which teaches. His spirit gives eyes to see, and his spirit opens the hearing ear. As it is written:
Isa 54:13
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the YAHWEH; and great shall be the peace of thy children. (KJV)This is why I am confident to neglect you for long periods of time. Opportunity is being given thereby for the spirit to teach and move you so that you will fully understand that your allegiance belongs to Messiah Yahushua and to him alone.

Did I not sense about you from the beginning that your heart was pure while others barked warnings about you? In such things I could be wrong, but even if I am wrong, even if you do not have a pure heart, I myself can, as a sprinkler, work to help change your heart through the power of the gospel. Either way, you have a pure heart.

The Law is much more than just a directive on morals which results in much discussion. The Law is a physical description of a behind the scenes reality. It can be likened to the script of a play. You can relate to this, Bratu. You love the theater. Every play depicts something, does it not? So also does the Law. I am going to plead with you to begin to look at the Law as one big integrated play with many acts. Two thousand years ago before the Temple was destroyed, we could all go to physical Jerusalem and actually see the physical play through all the interaction surrounding the physical Temple. The actors were the Jews. They were made to act so that we would have opportunity through their production (all the rituals of the Law) to look about us and see and understand a spiritual world. Consider the "sprinklers". In many places the Law relates information about the sprinklers and gives them direction. Look at this directive:
Num 19:19
19 And the clean person (the pure of heart) shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he (the unclean) shall purify himself, and wash his clothes (baptism), and bathe himself in water (baptism), and shall be clean at even. (KJV)This one verse tells us many things about reality if we can interpret the play. Today is the Seventh Day. Does this verse instruct us to only sprinkle on the physical Sabbath? Not at all! This verse let's us know that a latter rain is coming to all the world. This sprinkling has already begun again for we have already seen what we have not been told. Two thousand years ago the spiritual third day ended, and since that time, the world has had no rain. Men have sought the Word of ELOHIM, but they did not find it. Now, it can be found again through the sprinkling of HIS good spirit.

Have a good Sabbath (only the pure of heart rest from sin), Bratu!

Sincerely, Spying

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

03-18-2001, 11:44 AM

Bratu,

That's what you get for not responding to me...... The Law of Karma - Everything you do comes back to you.
Just meesssing with you brother....smile.

Smooooooooccccch !!!

Love to Ya
Ishshah

Bratu McCaskey

03-18-2001, 12:01 PM

Hails
Don't have time to respond long right now but i was amused by ishasha's post. Just didn't realize that there was really anything to respond to.

bratu

Ishshah Yir'iyayh

03-19-2001, 02:48 PM

That is because realize is really real-eyes.......

Smoooocccchhhhheeeesssss again

Ishshah

Bratu McCaskey

03-21-2001, 11:23 AM

Sorry about my lack of posting i will respond to you spying soon. I really do apologize but just to let everyone know i lost a family member and have been dealing with that. So i will be back as soon as i can but until then

bratu

Bratu McCaskey

03-22-2001, 08:46 PM

Hails,
Once again i return. I have been thinking a bit more lately. I wish i had the collection to express further many of the things that i want to speak of but i don't think some of it goes to words quite like i would like.

A true genius. I was reading an insane work of literature last night. It was Controled Burn by Pete G. Helcamp. He has something in it. I wish i could really comprehend something like that but i don't think i ever could. "you ain't worth the blood in your veins" a Bob Dylan lyric that is powerful as well. The great mind can express something that the normal person can only attempt to fathom with little success. Great music, great art, great literature, all are art, all capture that expression that thought that only a great mind could have been inspired to have. Perhaps the word terrible is more in order, like they used terrible back in the old world to describe the Gods. Terrible as in powerful or inspired but bewildering and sometimes freightening. Einstein was this way i think. Beethoven was this way also i think. There is an ability to express an idea to convey something a little deeper and have it understood and recognized by certain people. That is what i hope to be able to do one day. This is a vision which i think a teacher i have had, has. He sees education as so few do and has an ability to express it an almost bizzare fashion. The mark is a great mind. Possesed by the simple and vast alike.

I wonder if anyone will understand what i am saying. As everyone has seen i am not one to quote passages from any source for the most part. They come few and far between. My thoughts are spawned by all sorts of things. Most of which is just opening up as best i can. I am an open person in that i will answer pretty much any question that is asked of me. So the only key is that someone needs to ask the right question. Funny how extenuating circumstances help you to open your mind further. Many times from an artistic stand point i can't function until i have an impetus. Tragedy happiness something. I don't really know where i am going with this maybe just a glimpse of the inside perhaps.

Now i will answer you Spying even though i think that above was a response a plenty. But i will spare you the cryptograpy. And answer your questions direct.

The sprinklers is an interesting concept. I don't feel that Yahshua is the cause or nor the topic necessarily of these though. This could be anyone with a good idea. Grant Tzaddikim may have its own that share for it, but i feel that others have sprinklers of their own.
Forgive me for being of the opinion that i opened my ears perhaps with some help of friends, but i made that choice myself is what i am getting at. My spirit teaches me things yes but the things it teaches me do not point me towards Yahshua or Yahweh. In fact they push me further away. You did sense something of me when other barked their idle warnings. The cries of sheep in many instances. People tell me there is something special of me. The likes of which i do not know, nor am i inclined to believe. This i think is to keep myself humble. I don't see myself as special. I think that at most i just see things a bit differently perhaps. But am i not unclean to your philosophy?

To see a purpose beyond the simple fact. Maybe i restate the obvious but it is fairly apparent that your purpose here would be to convert me or atleast guide me to converting myself. My purpose here would be to present and recieve new ideas. i don't know that much of either of our purposes are being fulfilled yet. "all that remains is silence"-Hamlet

bratu

Spying

03-23-2001, 07:45 AM

Hi Bratu,

Your response was worth the wait. I get excited when I read a good post. A good post to me in not necessarily determined by the content. A good post to me is also the effort expended to communicate reflected in the post. I don't often comment about posts in this fashion, but I felt the same way about several of Ishshah's posts on this thread.

Your have perfectly described "sprinkling" to me. Thank you. Now, let me dwell on it a little. Artistic expression is a form of "sprinkling". The ability to sprinkle comes from inspiration. A small mind inspired is far greater than the highest of IQ's uninspired. I suspect that inspiration comes to all those who pay the price for it. You must seek it; however, one cannot seek what one does not believe exists. Therefore, in order to engage in sprinkling (all forms of artistic expression, art, music, religious ideas, scientific ideas, etc.), one's mind must indeed have been previously opened to the possibility of inspiration. All inspiration comes from powers outside of ourselves, and that power can be either good or evil. This is why Messiah said that we must become like little children in order to enter the Kingdom of ELOHIM:
Mark 10:15
15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of ELOHIM as a little child, he shall not enter therein.(KJV)A child's mind is open to inspiration. They are little receptacles who have great powers of belief. Little children unless they have been abused by their parents do not normally deny what they have been told. They are open to the possibilities before them.

Bratu, I am similar to an artist painting a picture which is not original or does not originate with me. The work is unfinished. Long ago, I realized that this painting is not for me to finish alone. A whole host of people are going to contribute to the painting. The contribution of others is critical to any future painting that I may be required to do. So, my motives in a sense are selfish. I need others like yourself more than you need me in order that we may eventual show the world a finished work of art.

I realize that I am coming to you with religious thoughts that are different than how you were taught as a child. I know that you were not inspired by what you were religiously taught as a child because of your movement towards Set. All of us that have left the religion of our childhood have done so because of the religious abuse that we have endured either by or through it. Please bear with me and take a good look at the three children who do sprinkle this world. You can see them at the crucifixion. They are Messiah Yahushua and the two thieves. The Jews lifted up the children who sprinkle and carried them on doors so that they would not be defiled by death and the grave. (This world does hold all who teach and preach in high esteem.) Two of the children are there to bear witness about the third, but all three do sprinkle. Two of the children bear witness to the truth. One does not. The world has hear the testimony of Messiah. The world has hear the testimony of the contrary child over the last two thousand years. Now, the world must hear the testimony of the third child, and I have caught a glimpse of what that does mean. The doorway to the Kingdom of ELOHIM is the grave. We can enter the grave with either false or true testimony about the "way" to life which is Messiah Yahushua. If we enter with the truth, we are not defiled by the grave. If we enter with false testimony, we are defiled. If we enter with the truth, death and the grave will have no power over us. Think about that a little, and let me know what you think? Remember, all three sprinklers endured almost the exact same suffering so martyrdom is not a sign of true teaching.

I don't have the power to convert, Bratu, but I do have the power to sprinkle. In time you will be required to judge whether my sprinkling is true or false. Have a good day, and I am sorry about the death of your family member.

Sincerely, Spying